Vulcan Arc

[Alelou]

A steady relationship acknowledged by both of them is never what I envision for Trip and T'Pol in that period. A fumbling physical relationship with almost everything left unspoken, yes. These two just don't discuss their true feelings easily. So Trip wanted to float the idea of going with her somehow but couldn't bear to just come out and say 'please take me with you' in case she said no. (And you're right, it absolutely doesn't make sense that he couldn't go visit his parents.)

If people want to think he'd make a hint like that when they are just flirting or dating or something without having had sex, that's fine. Personally I just don't see that as probable at all. There has to be some reason he wants to go on what could be a really awkward trip if they don't get along well, and there has to be some reason that she wants him to go, and it's clearly not that they've had a straightforward talk about how much they mean to each other, or the scene wouldn't have played out that way.

[WarpGirl]

Personally I just don't see that as probable at all. There has to be some reason he wants to go on what could be a really awkward trip if they don't get along well, and there has to be some reason that she wants him to go, and it's clearly not that they've had a straightforward talk about how much they mean to each other, or the scene wouldn't have played out that way.

OK I'm completely confused. By Home they do "get along well"! They seem to have put the hurt caused in Harbinger and E2, behind them. Whether they talked about it or not. So at that point they are two people who are close and they are being there for each other. Isn't that reason enough to take a trip? Why does it have to be that they must be in bed together, or they wouldn't want to go together? To me that idea is beyond belief.

[Rigil Kent]

Why does it have to be that they must be in bed together

'cause that's how the real world works in my experience. TnT don't talk about important things - they act. Hence, it's logical to presume they are having sex while trying to convince themselves their relationship isn't as deep/important as it really is. There is a considerable amount of time between the alien Nazis & the ill-fated trip to Vulcan, and I see them as in the early stages of the relationship which, for Trip anyway, this is the point where humans want to be together all the time and have lots of sex. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that they aren't having sex prior to "Home" because Trip needs some sort of validation in this ... "relationship" to convince him to continue making the effort, and since T'Pol doesn't exactly talk about her feelings, sex seems to be the logical way for that to happen.

I guess I don't understand the point of contention really. But then, it's been made abundantly clear to me that people see what they want to see on the show (myself included), so take it as you want it.

[WarpGirl]

"The real world" Oh OK I get it so different people's experiences (real or fiction) don't matter. Fine.

[Rigil Kent]

"The real world" Oh OK I get it so different people's experiences (real or fiction) don't matter. Fine.

No need to get pissy. I clearly stated "in my experience." Everything people think or believe is colored by their individual experiences. And in mine, I know of no guy who would put up with the crap T'Pol put Trip through without sex being involved. Hence my remark. *shrug*

[WarpGirl]

Sorry didn't mean to come of as upset. I was giggling in my head.

[Silverbullet]

There had to be something going on. In the Aener When trip was asking Phlox for his advice Phlox says the he can noy help with a romance. Trip and T'Pol are having a Romance on board then. Later when Trip is packing to leave Enterprise T'Pol comes in and says are you leaving because of me?" If she is just a colleague or another person on board or a female he is not involved with she wouldn't ask that question. She is esentialy saying are you leaving to get away from me. Are you breaking it off. He says that his world does not revole around her. Also seemingly to mean they are involved but he is saying that it is not the most important thing in his life. She walks out.

[WarpGirl]

What if Trip was asking Phlox how to deal with living with an ex- because A. They would have been ex-lovers after Harbinger, and B. T'Pol refused to re-start a relationship after her divorce (although all she really did was ask for more time.) What if T'Pol's question meant "Are you leaving because it has gotten too difficult because of our past"?

[honeybee]

I'm definitely in the something more than neuropressure and friendship was going on between Zero Hour and Home, but neither of them knew what it was and they weren't talking about it. Think about it - whenever Trip specifically tries to ask what is going on - things go south pretty quick. She simply doesn't allow herself to verbalize things in the way a human would expect. So, something had started up between them again but neither knew what it was. T'Pol invited him to Vulcan for a reason, he accepted for a reason but neither of them said what those reasons were. But I'd place good money on things getting physical again (my story challenge Contact Points makes this clear).

[Kotik]

There had to be something going on. In the Aener When trip was asking Phlox for his advice Phlox says the he can noy help with a romance.
...
She is esentialy saying are you leaving to get away from me. Are you breaking it off. He says that his world does not revole around her. Also seemingly to mean they are involved but he is saying that it is not the most important thing in his life. She walks out.

Have to disagree there. They broke off whatever they had or didn't have after "Home" for obvious reasons. After Koss released her (which she never bothered to tell him on-screen), he tried to get closer again, but she shot him down (IMHO pretty badly) in "Daedalus". Trip acted as if he would understand, but IMHO he didn't. He was badly hurt and "Daedalus" started what ended with his departure.
Phlox used "romance" in a more generalized fashion. He knew that Trip was in love with her and he knew that T'Pol didn't reciprocate and she was now willingly accepting the risk to fry her brain with that contraption. It is by no means a hint at a romance. If they had a romance, T'Pol wouldn't need to ask if he left because of her. His answer to that question was a clear lie and retaliation for all the times she had hurt him.

Those who know me a few days longer, know that I'm very hard on T'Pol for what she did during "Harbinger" and in many Season 4 scenes. She often hurt him badly and drove Trip to retaliate (The corridor scene in "Babel One" and the cabin scene in "Affliction")

[WarpGirl]

Honeybee I agree with you all that it is possible. Even though I don't see it myself. But I really loved their relationship before Harbinger, they were "involved" and it was not just as friends. They might not have defined it as a romantic relationship, but it definitely wasn't just friends. I saw them get back to that relatioship in Zero Hour, and I would think T'Pol would think that relationship important enough to invite him home. And I'm sure Trip thought it was a good enough reason to accept the invitation. Although his questions make it abundently clear he is wanting and hoping for more.

Just so I'm not confused, are people saying that their relationship before Harbinger was not enough to warrent an invitation? That without sex they wouldn't be as close?

[Alelou]

Yes. I am saying that before "Harbinger" and having sex, their relationship was not close enough for her to issue an invitation for him to come to Vulcan, especially one he had to fish for by claiming he had nowhere to go, and especially not one where he'd ask where he'd be staying and what he'd be introduced to her mother as.

[Rigil Kent]

Yes. I am saying that before "Harbinger" and having sex, their relationship was not close enough for her to issue an invitation for him to come to Vulcan, especially one he had to fish for by claiming he had nowhere to go, and especially not one where he'd ask where he'd be staying and what he'd be introduced to her mother as.

Agreed. They were friends prior to "Harbinger," and we know that both of them were attracted to each other, but it was inadequate to merit an invitation like this, particularly since T'Pol is Vulcan. Prior to the hot Vulcan lovin', they were only friends. After? Well, that changed things considerably...

[Kotik]

Just so I'm not confused, are people saying that their relationship before Harbinger was not enough to warrent an invitation? That without sex they wouldn't be as close?

On the contrary. The roll in the hay destroyed their friendship. They got along very well, but when she tackled him, there were only two ways to continue and that was a comitted relationship, at least if Trip's view on the topic is anything like mine or to break it off.

The romp in the swamp (sound'n funny this ) with Kaitaama was a one-time fling, both knew that when they started it. "Harbinger" was a different case, they were good friends and shared a mutual affection, if you get physical then, it starts expectations. Been there done that. A good lady-friend of mine did the same and we didn't come out of it in one piece. We were good friends for years and I was secretly in love with her, but never acted on it, since I didn't want to destroy a good friendship. One evening she tackled me and - well, we didn't get much sleep that night.
Three days later - she had noticed that for me that had been more than just "friends with benefits", she made it clear that she was not interested in more than a good friend, but she had slammed that door shut by that time. We only saw each other once after that and I was in agony the whole time. I think the same happened to Trip. T'Pol laid claim on him that night but shot him down horribly the next morning.

[Silverbullet]

It has been suggested that the Bond started with the NP session and the Mating scene in Harbinnger sealed it. I am in the camp that the Bond would need nurturing and strenthening by them having more Sex later on.

In the scene where Trip shows up in her white room while he is on the Columbia and she s on the Enterprise. I still think that they were seperated by one light year (a bit over Six Trillion miles) that is a very long distance to be apart. In the scene her only reaction is to tell him to get out of her White room. He syas it is his Daydream she should leave.

Later in bound Trip finally admits he has been having Daydream(s) plural, other daydreams. T'Pol being vulcan doesn't dream and I doubt if she has Daydreams either. Why doesn't she realize that these things are not daydreams but something else. She tells Trip that they are bonded. Why doesn't she realize that his appearance in her white room was the Bond manifesting itself to connect thier two minds over an incredible distance. A most powerful Bond to work at that distance.

I believe that they would need to have continued, if not that often, Sexual relations to strenghthen the Bond. It would need nuturing and Sex seems a pretty good way of doing that.
T'Pol bein g a Touch Telepath the more intimate the touch the better.