I Just Rewatched ____ and Noticed ____

[WarpGirl]

Not necessarily. Sarek went through Kolinahr and he re-married more than once. Tuvok also passed Kolinahr.

[Silverbullet]

WG, that avoids the question: Can a Vulcan man meditate through Pon Farr if he has a strong mind. Tuvok said, yes.

T'Pol seemed to believe she was going through a Pon Farr or something like it. I believe she was responding to the call of Pon Farr but did not have a mate so she was ready to jump any man's bones. That or die.


However, in other episodes men passed through Pon Farr. Did not "Mate" and lived. The idea of a female Pon Farr died with that episode. also the idea that a Vulcan would only mate every seven years. witness T'Pol seducing Trip. Doubt if that was female Pon Farr or it had been seven years since t'Pol's last mating. Which brings up the interesting question: had T'Pol ever mated before seducing Trip. Since after that seduction they were mated and bonded obviously not. Trip was her first sexual experience. Although T'Pol said later that Trip could not have a sexual experience without wanting it to become a relationship. or something like that.

SB

[WarpGirl]

No I am not! SB You forget a lot of details about all Pon Farr episodes we're referencing.

First: T'Pol's Pon Farr was completely unnatural it was caused by the drugs the Suliban pumped through her when they tortured her. IF she had gone through a Pon Farr, initiated by a telepathic conection like B'Elanna did in Blood Fever, she would have had to fight, mate, or die.

Second: Tuvok said it was possible but he also said it was very, very, very, very, rare. He didn't say he was strong enough to do it. He tried and failed he ended up using a hologram of his BONDED mate. He didn't just go after an unattached woman. He needed T'Pel.

Third: Just because it is possible to resolve Pon Farr through meditation does not mean any Vulcan can DO IT.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Not necessarily. Sarek went through Kolinahr and he re-married more than once. Tuvok also passed Kolinahr.

Really? I don't recall that they both went through Kolinahr, but maybe these are facts that has slipped my mind/I never registered.

[WarpGirl]

Yep. Kolinahr is not a guarentee of the "perfect Vulcan" there is no such thing, except T'Pau. But considering how ENT portrayed her I disagree.

[Silverbullet]

I might be wrong b ut it happened in the Episode bounty. NO Suliban in that episode. It was caused by a plant that Phlox had thrown to T'Pol she gave Phlox what for about it. anyway it seemed to be a Pon Farr call and she was trying to answer it but she did not have a mate so she was offering herself to Phlox, Malcolm and even eyed Trip.

Tuvok said it ws possible for a Vulcan man with a strong mind to meditate through Pon Farr. It was also obvious that it could be done through sedation as Phlox did to TT'Pol.

Still think that Trip was T'Pol's first Sexual experience.

SB

[WarpGirl]

ok there is so much wrong with this...

1.

PHLOX: Have you gone through this before?
T'POL: It's not time.

Nobody said she had sex before Trip. That has nothing to do with this. You don't understand what Pon Farr is.

2.

PHLOX: This mating cycle of yours was artificially induced. We can't be certain that a physical encounter would help.

Although it seems utterly impossible that after years working in the interspeices medical exchange that Phlox has no clue what Pon Farr is, he is still correct here.

3. I remember the microbe, but I could swear in another episode they also blame the Suliban Torture.

4. Again Tuvok said it was possible, but he also said that MOST WHO ATTEMPT TO MEDITATE DIE! And he FAILED! So it's not a viable option for someone like T'Pol, anyway.

5. If T'Pol's cycle had been triggered by Koss or another mate NO DRUG would have stopped it. Otherwise they could have drugged, Spock, Vorik and Tuvok. You really should look this stuff up.

[Cogito]

ok there is so much wrong with this...
5. If T'Pol's cycle had been triggered by Koss or another mate NO DRUG would have stopped it. Otherwise they could have drugged, Spock, Vorik and Tuvok. You really should look this stuff up.

I don't think it is that black and white, and I don't think that there is a definitive answer that you can simply look up.

You are assuming that the male and female situations are identical, and there is no evidence to support that assumption. It could well be the case, but there is a wide range of other possible assumptions that are also plausible. For example it may be that, once started, drugs are ineffective. Or that drugs can delay/reduce the effects but not stop them. Or that the story that some people can survive through meditation is an old wives tale. It may be that males and females both have spontaneous Pon Farr, perhaps synchronised by some cool vulcan mojo, or that one triggers the other. The possibilities are almost endless.

As far as I see it, nobody (not even the writers) knows quite how Pon Farr works and what we saw on the screen was whatever was necessary to justify the next five minutes worth of dialogue. There are plenty of theories and no doubt you can find fans who agree with your preferred theory, but that doesn't mean that all the other theories are wrong.

[Ulva]

This is a good example of the issues with Star Trek canon. I have interpreted this Pon Farr thing pretty much like WarpGirl has but there are room for different opinions, simply because canon isn't consistent and extensive and we've got no off screen manual on this subject. There are also people who has worked with episode scripts that has said a thing or two about this in interviews; their intentions and how they perceived this, which one could take in to account. It's not canon per se, but it is what the writers used as background when giving us these stories.

Me? I kind of prefer the holes in this because I get very irritated when canon dictates something I believe is silly or unrealistic. I have a thing or two to say about the Romulans and their development as an example, which is the "downside" of my university studies in biology. I just don't buy some of the canon stuff about them because it's not realistic. I know it's fiction and that you can't expect writers to be experts on everything, but then it's perhaps best to leave it a bit shady, open for interpretation.

[pdsldl]

ok there is so much wrong with this...
5. If T'Pol's cycle had been triggered by Koss or another mate NO DRUG would have stopped it. Otherwise they could have drugged, Spock, Vorik and Tuvok. You really should look this stuff up.

I don't think it is that black and white, and I don't think that there is a definitive answer that you can simply look up.

You are assuming that the male and female situations are identical, and there is no evidence to support that assumption. It could well be the case, but there is a wide range of other possible assumptions that are also plausible. For example it may be that, once started, drugs are ineffective. Or that drugs can delay/reduce the effects but not stop them. Or that the story that some people can survive through meditation is an old wives tale. It may be that males and females both have spontaneous Pon Farr, perhaps synchronised by some cool vulcan mojo, or that one triggers the other. The possibilities are almost endless.

As far as I see it, nobody (not even the writers) knows quite how Pon Farr works and what we saw on the screen was whatever was necessary to justify the next five minutes worth of dialogue. There are plenty of theories and no doubt you can find fans who agree with your preferred theory, but that doesn't mean that all the other theories are wrong.

I agree it's not black or white but I always believed T'Pol's induced pon farr was prevented because Phlox was able to counteract the reaction she was having but in the case of an actual real-life pon farr there would not be a medical intervention because it involves mated Vulcans and even though many had been searching for a way to intervene they were unable to. Sex may be part of forming and strengthening a bond between mates but I think all types of intimacy between them also serves to make it stronger. That explains the year spent together, do they get to know one another and form a stronger bond. Did the idea that oit's possible no bond would form and they could separate come from canon or fabfictions?

[Cogito]

Did the idea that oit's possible no bond would form and they could separate come from canon or fabfictions?

I think that was invented by fanfiction. It's a convenient way to resolve the stigma of T'Pol's failed marriage to Koss, although I can't help thinking that it negates the point of marriages arranged in childhood.

[Silverbullet]

I have always thought that a betrothal (sp) made in childhood by he parents was barbaric. Especially a species that valued Logic. Logic woulld indeed say hat the child when grown up may well not want to marry the other person in the betorthal.

I know, we on Earth had it, still do but that doesn't make any less barbric.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Vulcan women shouldn't have a plak tau on their own AT ALL. Canonically from the time of Amok Time, and Search For Spock and onward, it's very clear. T'Pring wasn't burning up, because a betrothal bond only allows the female to know her mate is in Pon Farr.

The only way a woman goes into Pon Farr herself is when her man intitates a mating meld. I said it before and I'll say it again, look up Amok Time, Search for Spock, Blood Fever, and even Body and Soul.

In Amok Time nobody was worried about T'Pring dying... even if she was boffing Stonn, she was still bound to Spock. Yet she wasn't dying.

Search for Spock Saavik made it quite clear, Pon Farr, Vulcan Males must endure it every seventh year of their adult life.

Blood Fever Tuvok explained how Vorik was able to affect B'Elanna, he made a mental link. Without that link a woman is not affected by the plak tau. And he made it clear that the process was the same for Vulcan women.

Body and Soul Tuvok's concern was the issue of fidelity to his wife if he used her hologram. He had no reason to be worried about her dying or finding a partner, because he wasn't there with her to make the link. She was safe.

[Ulva]

I have always thought that a betrothal (sp) made in childhood by he parents was barbaric. Especially a species that valued Logic. Logic woulld indeed say hat the child when grown up may well not want to marry the other person in the betorthal.

I know, we on Earth had it, still do but that doesn't make any less barbric.

SB

I don't agree. There's logic to betrothal in the Vulcan case (not really in our case but it is a way of controlling assets for us). Every Vulcan male has to face pon farr. This presents Vulcans with a delicate problem. If he doesn't resolve it by sex (and of course violence - but they're trying to hold that tendency down) he will die. They can't have that. For the sake of the society at large and the individuals, making sure that the issue of who he should have sex with was solved before that time came is a logical step to take. No one needs to suffer death and everyone is prepared for this event when it occurs.

[Silverbullet]

But spock did't have sex with that female and vorik didn't have sex with Torres. Both Pon Farr's ended with a fight. No one go t killed just received a butt whipping.

I bounty T'Pol was supposed to die if she didn'g get pronged. Phlox sedated her heavily and she woke up with the thing gone (whatever it was) and no Sex although Phlox played the Ahole by saything "that is between you and you r doctor when she asked if anything happened.

Pon Farr doesn't hve to end in dath if neither of the two don't have sex or both don't. The result with spock was had handed the wman over to the other guy and returned to Enterprise none the worse for wear. Torres won her little fight and Paris as there to comfort her.

I nave never liked Pon Farr and belive it was tossed in when Star Trek was first created to make the Vulcans a little more "alien" It sure a shell came back to bite them on the Ass.

SB