What's Trip and T'Pol's specialty?

[michelle]

I'm not sure if i made this up but I'm sure i heard it somewhere in other Trek's that is was quite common for people to have multiple degree's so it really is what ever you fancy sounds right.

I also always thought that Starfleet academy was like an equivalent to a university, a bit more militaristic, only it's courses where geared towards space travel and based on your ability and interest you chose what area you wanted to be in, engineering, command, the sciences, medical, that sort of thing. i mean don't they join up at 18 like when anyone else would go to university? So the comment in *the_abomination* doesn't really bother me at all.

[Asso]

Oh, The Abomination is the Abomination.
Nothing else!

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, there was no Starfleet Academy in ENT (the Academy was founded in 2161 at the same time as the Federation). What we had was something called Starfleet Training. I've taken that to mean that you trained as an officer there, but that you simultaneously could pursue an academic degree (or two). Or maybe you already have your degree and then go to SF Training to get your officer's training.

[Elessar]

Well, there was no Starfleet Academy in ENT (the Academy was founded in 2161 at the same time as the Federation). What we had was something called Starfleet Training. I've taken that to mean that you trained as an officer there, but that you simultaneously could pursue an academic degree (or two). Or maybe you already have your degree and then go to SF Training to get your officer's training.

This is the way Marine Corps officer accession works, which would seem to be a good model for Starfleet Officer accession because like Starfleet, the Marine Corps has no officer academy like the Army (West Point), Navy (Annapolis) and AF (AF Academy):

You go to college and in your final two years you attend a summer course of some length of time. After you graduate with your degree, you get commissioned and then become a full-time active duty officer. You go through the remainder of your training. The stuff during college is really just screening to see if you've got what it takes.

The only difference is, naturally, Starfleet "OCS" as we call it, would be much more academically oriented than physically oriented as the Marine Corps OCS is and your degree area would influence what MOS you can get (military occupational specialty, like 'engineering officer'.). There wouldn't be an MOS for "chief engineer" for the same reason there isn't an MOS for "Battalion Commander" today in the armed forces. You get "infantry officer" and then work your way up to the position of battalion commander.

Under this model, here's how a person COULD become an officer without going to college:

You enlist out of highschool (16-18 is the range, sometimes there are options for early enlistment with delayed entry at 16... the benefit is, your time-in-service starts REALLY early... this might allow someone to rise through the ranks faster later on... *hint*hint*). You serve a period of time as an enlistedman and then you go through an internal officer accession program like the Marine Corps' MECEP program and you may or may not have to go through OCS the way college grads do.

The other option is that you enlist early, like I said before, serve some time, get out, get your GI bill, go to college and get your degree, then come back as a officer in which case you get your time-in-service from when you were enlisted, also allowing you to rise through the ranks quicker than a reg. officer who went to college. But this person would be a little older than the MECEP option because you have actually gotten out of the service after your enlistment whereas the MECEP option is a smooth transition from enlisted to commissioned.

Here's the issue with using my proposed model: The main quarrel with Trip not having a college degree is the incredible technical depth of his particular job - engineering - and his position as chief engineer. The whole Marine Corps model doesn't handle this because none of the Marine Corps jobs are that technical (obviously there's no spacecraft stuff but I mean even relative to today's technology there are no job positions in the Marine Corps that are R&D - with the exception of the Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory and I don't know much about that).

MY conclusion is that you can fiddle with how Trip got his degree and how he was promoted so quickly and why - but you can't really get around the need for a degree... it's simply not very likely. It's possible if someone INSISTS - that he only has an undergraduate degree in physics, but a masters in systems engineering with an undergraduate education in something pure math or pure science is more probable. I would doubt an undergraduate degree in engineering only. If he's going to have only an undergraduate degree and then Starfleet training on top of that, IMO it would have to be math or physics.

[michelle]

We know Trip was in star fleet for 12 years when he was 30 and a Commander. We also know that the engines where being tested and designed by star fleet personnel, like a university might research an engine. Fair enough star fleet training isn't the academy and i don't know anything about how any of the forces works in this day and age but since this is science fiction and the only way i can fudge Trip being where he is at the age he is, is star fleet would have had to have given Warp theory and engineering courses for engineers (as advanced as any university coarse) as part of star fleet training. This makes sense in my head as star fleet would have been heavily influenced by the Vulcan's since earth was a complete mess before they arrived and Vulcan's hold academic achievements very high. I really do believe star fleet is an amalgamation of some type of military organization and a university.

[blacknblue]

We know Trip was in star fleet for 12 years when he was 30 and a Commander. We also know that the engines where being tested and designed by star fleet personnel, like a university might research an engine. Fair enough star fleet training isn't the academy and i don't know anything about how any of the forces works in this day and age but since this is science fiction and the only way i can fudge Trip being where he is at the age he is, is star fleet would have had to have given Warp theory and engineering courses for engineers (as advanced as any university coarse) as part of star fleet training. This makes sense in my head as star fleet would have been heavily influenced by the Vulcan's since earth was a complete mess before they arrived and Vulcan's hold academic achievements very high. I really do believe star fleet is an amalgamation of some type of military organization and a university.

A moot point, isn't it? I mean, universities are accredited by the government. Starfleet is a government agency. If Starfleet training is accredited, then Trip has an accredited degree.

[Alelou]

I may be wrong about this, but I think most universities and colleges are actually accredited by regional or national organizations not affiliated with the federal government. I'm sure the govt. requires accreditation before extending loans but I don't think it's actually the job of fed. government to accredit.

There may also be state accreditation, at least in NY where every freaking thing under the sun requires an office of state employees to supervise it. I suppose California could accredit Starfleet.

Maybe by the time of Starfleet we'll have one giant planetary bureacracy for all this crap.

Oh oh, I'm sounding like CX now.

[michelle]

A moot point, isn't it? I mean, universities are accredited by the government. Starfleet is a government agency. If Starfleet training is accredited, then Trip has an accredited degree.

All's I is saying is, that he might not actually have gone to college college. And didn't need to.

I'd kinda hope there is one world wide government but then I am one of those bubble heads and don't have a clue how difficult that could makes things.

[dialee]

If Starfleet Training is the forerunner of Starfleet Academy, then Trip does have a college degree. Compared to what we have today, if you went to one of the four or five military academies and graduated, then it is accepted that you have at least a four year degree. Anything higher after a baccalaureate such as a Masters or PH.D. will have to be gotten from a regulator unversity.

I know this because several friends went to West Point (Army) and Annapolis (Navy). They later went to get higher degree's from other state and/or private universities. As for all the different subject areas of expertise, I suspect you could specially design programs for the gifted student.

[JadziaKathryn]

As for all the different subject areas of expertise, I suspect you could specially design programs for the gifted student.

Well, now that you mention it, there was a fellow graduate at my graduation who got a bachelor's degree with a quadruple major! He graduated summa cum laude too. Maybe that's what Trip did.

[Asso]

I think it's so.

[Elessar]

I don't.... it would take too long ... to account for Trip's age, I mean.

[Asso]

Mh...
Enterprise is not nowadays. Things change.

[Alelou]

Maybe we're too stuck thinking of how we went through college -- one semester at a time. In a really connected world and if conventional student-professor relationships have changed, you could just master the content and move on. So if you were brilliant, you could move really fast.

Kind of feel sorry for people if that happens, though. College is fun. Grad school can be even more fun, especially if you work for awhile before you go back.

[Elessar]

Maybe we're too stuck thinking of how we went through college -- one semester at a time. In a really connected world and if conventional student-professor relationships have changed, you could just master the content and move on. So if you were brilliant, you could move really fast.

Kind of feel sorry for people if that happens, though. College is fun. Grad school can be even more fun, especially if you work for awhile before you go back.

I think that's a good point... Today's education system is so totally inefficient time-wise.