The Eugenics war is coming...

Just what it says on the tin.

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The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby blacknblue » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:10 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7074831.stm

A genetically modified "supermouse" which can run twice as far as a normal rodent has been created by scientists working in the US.

It also lives longer, and breeds later in life compared with its standard laboratory cousin.........


One criticism of the work is that it could open the door to abuse, with the spectre of athletes resorting to gene therapy to try to improve their performance.

But Professor Hanson played this down. "Right now, this is impossible to do - putting a gene into muscle. It's unethical. And I don't think you'd want to do this. These animals are rather aggressive, we've noticed." ............(emphasis added)


Just a matter of time now. If it can be done, somebody will eventually do it.
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby CX » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:16 am

I'd say something more akin to Gattica myself. Unless of course research like this is nipped in the bud and banned.

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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby JadziaKathryn » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:33 am

Now see, I was always a little confused about this. If the Augments were so superior, why did they lose?
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby CX » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:41 am

The same reason the Red Army did in WWII - overwhelming numbers. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby hth2k » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:36 am

Nothing new here. The knowledge base improves and techniques may change. Human nature does not.

Stalin tried to create a super warrior that was half ape and half human.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17 ... 62,00.html

Just one example.

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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby CX » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:50 am

The Chinese have been working creating super-soldiers for a while now, too.

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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby Mitchell » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:22 pm

JadziaKathryn wrote:Now see, I was always a little confused about this. If the Augments were so superior, why did they lose?


Cause they were cocky basterds. Who got their collective arses Kicked by superirly Trained, 100% Natural Hybrids- AKA GIJoes. With a hell of a lot more experance. 8)
Pluss superior numbers 2.



I really Hate it when People try a play God like this,,, Cause common sence alone should tell ya that this will just come back to bite us in the Ass. Its one thingto try an cure diseases an stuff, but to try an "improve" on a design that dosnt have a Damn thing wrong with it, Is Just plain stupid. :?
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby Elessar » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:20 pm

Well, there are plenty of things wrong with us (physically and anatomically speaking about performance). If there weren't anything wrong with us, nnobody would be talking about doing this... and there wouldn't be hundreds of diseases we're worried about curing. I'm just reading this book called "On Combat" and the particular chapter I'm reading is all about the various ways in which our bodies begin to fail at certain tasks above a heart rate of 145 BPM, and get successively worse as it goes up (such as in stressful or life-threatening situations).

I had my eyes fixed with laser surgery... which actually ended up giving me 20/10 instead of 20/20. Is that any different? I mean there are potential problems with this out the yin-yang, with people getting genetic enhancements who can afford it (Gattica), but I really think that's what's already happened with LASEK. People might say that LASEK isn't the same as gene therapy for performance gain because myopia is a defect in the human eye that is being restored to natural balance - but that's 20/20, and like I said, many LASEK patients including myself gain 20/10, which is a physiological abnormality in people naturally.

I respect that people fear (as do I) the concept of univerally available gene therapy for any ailment or weakness - but I do not think it's a principally different paradigm than medicine has already breached in the past 100 years. The difference, on the fundamental level, of giving someone medicine that cures a respiratory illness, and giving someone a shot that alters their DNA to make them immune to the flu is academic if you divorce it of the philosophical questions and look at only what is being done to the body. In the medicine case, you're just eradicating this instance of the illness. In the gene therapy case, you're innoculating against further outbreak. Doesn't it seem that the 2nd case is a lot smarter than just curing it this time and waiting for it to come back just to cure it again? I think the same reasoning could be applied to the differences between medicinal treatment and genetic treatment of any ailment; osteoperosis, diabetes, arthritis, heart disease, cancer, etc.

Performance enhancers is a bit of a different matter, but the real question with performance enhancers seems to be the ethics of allowing people who have had them to run around and compete with those who haven't under the same conditions and with nobody knowing that they have, right? I mean nobody would object to some guy getting surgery to give him a 60" vertical and then just using it to skateboard with his friends on the street, would they? It's if he skated in the X-Games and didn't tell anybody and took home a bunch of medals, right? In that case, those organizations would have to have controls and tests for those things. Just like they do for performance-enhancing drugs today.

I'm not saying I completely agree on a philosophical level with these things being done, I've just resolved myself to the belief that it's too late to stop it and that we might as well -- because there are ways to -- start now on ways to control and regulate it so that our societal worst fears and nightmares about it (Gattica) won't come true. I think that Pandora's Box has been open since we discovered DNA, and from that moment, to the moment we implant speech-recognition DNA cocktails into chimpanzees and put them on Ricki Lake, has always been a straight line from which we can't deviate, because human nature presupposes the exploration of every unknown to its furthest reaches. I'll freely admit that in the scientific ethic, nothing is sacred in and of itself beside knowledge. Where that ethic will lead us... who's to say. But we know it saves lives and improves quality of life, so it can't be all bad.
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby TSara » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:01 pm

See I kinda have Moral issues with some of this stuff and I really do think we as human's play God too much at times.


This may sound weird but bear with me.

I wear glasses to correct my vision...so I am ok with lasik.

I'm ok with surgery to correct issues like burns or cleft lips as well.

But I have fertility issues and I will not get IVF simply because I think that if I was meant to happen it will.

I have the same issues with some of the gene therapy out there that I have with IVF.

I don't think we were put on the planet do go through pain and suffering from horrible diseases....but I do think that some of it was meant to be a form of population control.

That probably sounds really heartless but it's not meant to be.

I just think to everything there is a purpose and a reason.
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby CX » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:19 pm

I'm all for treating and finding cures for genetic disease, but where I start having problems with it is when it's used to make enhancements. I don't compare this to plastic surgury because plastic surgury changes appearance, whereas genetic enhancements would change functionality.

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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby Elessar » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:10 pm

Right, but LASEK/LASIK/PRK changes functionality. That's what I'm getting at, it's a currently available medical treatment that's non-genetic but involves the same question.
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Re: The Eugenics war is coming...

Postby CX » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:29 pm

Improved eye vision through a dangerous and expensive laser surgury that no one knows what the long term effects might be is one thing, changing someone's genes to give them physical and/or mental enhancement is another. For one thing, you can't really modify someone's genes after they've been born, and the way things are, there is no way to tell if a kid will be near or far-sighted or not at the stage genetic manipulation would have to be done at. That being the case, what would stop someone from going further than improving eyesight? Why not give the kid better eye-hand coordination? Why not give them a higher metabolic rate? Why not make them physically stronger? Why not make them smarter? Why not give them every advantage they can if they can afford it?


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