What's Trip and T'Pol's specialty?

[Escriba]

I mean, in the professional field. What are they degrees? I know there is nothing official, but a guess would be of great help, above all because I don't know how College degrees works in the US.

I always supposed T'Pol was an Astrophysicist and maybe she had a degree in Geology too, because she was very interested in sites like Yellowstone Park or Carlsbad Caverns. And for Trip... I would say Aerospace engineering. Is that right? If he's using a machine that manipulates space I can expect he's an expert in Theoretical Physics (and maybe Particle Physics?)

Help, anyone?

[Asso]

Mathematics! No doubt!
That's T'Pol's specialty.
Pure, difficult and not for many peoples.
Very "Vulcanesque", and absolutely suitable for her.
And for Trip?
Ah... All and nothing!
He is a man with various skilfulness !
Maybe an "Eclectic Engineer"?

[hth2k]

COnsider if you will that a space ship is a closed system of many technologies. The chief engineer is responsible for all of them, He would need expertise in most if not all systems in the vessle. Also a warp engine is not just a big analog of a diesel, gas, steam, or any other conventional engine. The cosest to that would be an impulse engine which may be a reaction engine of some sort. Perhaps an advanced ion drive which develops a high specifc impulse and offers high thrust and efficiency at high fractions of C.

The warp engine is a physics engine, no grease and or oil, lots of high power physics, Think particle accellorator thingies like super colliders for power scale.

Trip would need mathematics, data analysis, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, electronics, physics, computer science, HVAC, structural engineering, materials science, plumbing, hydraulics, high power electrical systems, etc.
He would have a team of experts in each of the various fields and a crew of well trained technicians, Most would have cross training in several areas. He would need leadership and management skills and training. Thus the high rank.

T'Pol wuold likely have some expertise in many of the same areas that Trip has with additional studies in her specialties. Remember, she is 65-66 years old. WIth a Vulcan emphasis on education and her time in space
it is likely she would have the equivalent of several PhDs. It would also be logical to have been cross trained in just about every area of a space ship. As there is a limited number of crew and travel takes lots of time, you may loose people on any given mission. You need to be able to step in anywhere there is a need if the ship/crew is to have much chance for survival much less completing a mission.

FIgure 20-25 years of formal education for her. Add another 20-30 years of space travel/military duty. That would make her 50-55. Add say 5 years in the security ministry and that would make her 55-60. Add 5 years in the diplomatic service and you have 65 which would put her on Enterprize.

She may well have studied math, physics, astronomy with perhaps several specializations. She likely speaks several languages and is familiar with a range of cultures and civilizations which she has seen first hand,

If you consider she has had both military and security service training, it may be reasonible to assume combat training. This may inclide personal combat, armed and unarmed. She would have weapons training from hand held to perhaps fighting/defending a starship which were demonstrated when took command of the "E" and did just that.

As a science officer, she would need expertise in all the technology and systems in that department. Likely a strong expertise in computer science hardware, software, systems integration, etc. Advanced expertise in electronics would not be unreasonible.

Just my $.02.

HtH

[JadziaKathryn]

Trip has to have a college degree. I don't care what *the_abomination* said. I ignore *the_abomination*, naturally.

Here's what I have as a background in my mind: Trip completed a Bachelor of Science degree (generally 4 years in the US). Maybe he even did a double major, say in Theoretical Physics and Mechanical Engineering. Then he went on to get his Masters of Science (another 2 years on average). But, instead of going on to get a PhD, he joined Starfleet. Because they heard about the work he did for his Masters and were super impressed. Not being a science person myself, I leave the precise details of that to your imagination.

To my mind, this explains how he got in education and rank and, at the beginning of the series, was still in his early 30s.

[pookha]

on top of the degrees trip has to have a pretty solid understanding of some very esoteric particle physics to do what he did in the expanse.
he also seems to have some understanding of the ships weapon systems also.
among the odd interesting stuff he not only can pilot a shuttle but also the ship in an emergency.

[Alelou]

I'm pretty sure Trip would have a college degree too, but I have known people who are just too brilliant and focused and stubborn to want to go through regular academia who end up doing scientific work of worldwide importance in their labs (which may indeed be in universities, who know enough to hire these geniuses). They just don't get paid as well to do it.

So I could see Trip being recruited right out of an academic program into R&D before he's officially graduated. But he also strikes me as practical enough to make sure he gets the credentials he needs for advancement.

[Elessar]

I would imagine that T'Pol has at minimum an equivalent of a Ph.D. in a field I would call "subspace physics" or perhaps a Mathematics degree in topology with a lot of physics, like the Vulcan equivalent of a double major.

There's also the possibility that, like the relatively new field of astrobiology/xenobiology/exobiology, the Vulcans would define a degree or formal education in a field like "subspace physics" as an interdisciplinary field that requires prerequisites from multiple fields. Astrobio for example requires a strong undergraduate education in geology, biology and astronomy or physics. Subpace physics as a major or graduate program could be a math/physics double program. It would probably have to be...

Trip's would be like... I would think the best possible explanation for the full scope of his knowledge would be a masters or phd in space systems engineering, which is an actual major today.

[blacknblue]

Whether he has all of the specific sheepskins or not, Trip would have to hold the equivalent of several Doctoral degrees in mathematics, subatomic physics, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, plasma physics, hydrodynamics, aerodynamics, organic and inorganic chemistry, metallurgy and materials science, and also he would need at least some understanding of ecology and biology in order to maintain the life support systems. At minimum, if not more.

He would also have to possess both training and hands on experience in welding, tool & die fabrication, all types of electrical installation and repair, hydraulics, hydrology, ad infinitum. He would have to be as comfortable with a cutting torch as he is with a computer.

Plus, he would have to be at least a moderately adept computer programmer.

Finally, in order to hold command rank (to be in the actual chain of command) Trip would have to receive training in how to command a ship. Which means formal training in personnel management, tactics, and everything else that goes along with being prepared to take over command of a vessel in the middle of a battle if the bridge gets blown to hell and he is the last command level officer left alive.


T'Pol would need everything that Trip has, plus training in espionage, law enforcement, prisoner apprehension and control, personal self-defense, combat operations, every kind of science that Trip hasn't studied, diplomacy, linguistics, alien cultures all over the freaking quadrant, and who knows what else.


Neither of them could get where they are without graduating college. Not gonna happen.

[Escriba]

Ohhh... they're very interesting opinions...

I like Elessar's idea about a "subspace physics" for T'Pol, she looks quite proficient in other cultures and Geology, and she can help Phlox too (as we saw in "The Observer's effect", or in "The Xindi" where she notices the Xindi's epithelian cells look like scales, or in "E2" where she can recognize Human DNA.) And hth2k's chonolocial explanation it's very cool

I think JadziaKathryn's background for Trip is very logic I've seen in wikipedia (oh... how I love thee...) that Aerospace engineering's elements are: Fluid mechanics, Astrodynamics, Statics and Dynamics, Mathematics, Electrotechnology, Propulsion, Control engineering, Aircraft structures, Materials science, Solid mechanics, Aeroelasticity, Avionics, Risk and reliability, Noise control and Flight test. But I don't know if all of this can be learned in the same degree or several. So, Aeronautical/Astronautical degree, Mechanical engineering and Advanced Phycics? Besides his Starfleet training.

I do think there is a difference between the two of them in the empirical area. I think T'Pol knows Enterprise inside and out, but only in the theorical way. I'll put "Countdown" as an example. T'Pol makes several suggestions about how to disable the spheres, but Trip refutes them, not only because he's angry, but because he knows it's impossible for the ship too.

I guess Trip is more about the hardware and T'Pol about the software.

It's just... I have to write a professional arguing between the two of them and it's helpful to know the strenghts points and the weak points of each one in the work area.

[Elessar]

Whether he has all of the specific sheepskins or not, Trip would have to hold the equivalent of several Doctoral degrees in mathematics, subatomic physics, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, plasma physics, hydrodynamics, aerodynamics, organic and inorganic chemistry, metallurgy and materials science, and also he would need at least some understanding of ecology and biology in order to maintain the life support systems. At minimum, if not more.

I disagree that he would need an education himself in all these systems. He would need to have a proficient understanding of them but modern day chief engineers on space systems projects are not experts in every subfield of the project. They usually have a specialty of those subjects, maybe even more than one specialty. It was on a university level, but I have experience with this on a satellite project and our chief engineer was far from a expert on propulsion (my subsystem). In fact, when she went to present our paper to the Air Force Research Lab at Kirtland AFB, I had to brief her on the details of the propulsion system so she would be able to make that presentation proficiently. She was an expert in structures, but was still quite able and intelligent enough to - once briefed on the design/physics/mathematics - be able to grasp those concepts.

You can find a modern day example of this in Pier Oddone, the director of Fermilab from 2004 to 2006 and who's now workin on the LHC at CERN, and he's just a particle physicist, he's not formally educated in all the fields one would need to be educated in to be completely versed in every system at Fermilab or CERN like mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, computer science, like 5 different sub-specialties of physics like solid state condensed matter physics (for the low-temp superconducting electromagnets used to guide the particles), or the number of other fields like you mentioned are necessary on a starship.

So, I think Trip would have to have a specialty and maybe even a dual specialty (like House, hehe) but he wouldn't have to be versed in every system... I don't think think that'd be practical, even in the future. All chief engineers would be like 70 years old to get that much education.

I agree about the command training though. The Marine Corps requires all company grade officers (2Lt, 1Lt, Cpt) to attend a Field Grade Officer School before they are eligble for promotion up to Major, LtCol, or Col. Same from Col to General requiring yet another school called like "General Staff Officer School".

I've seen in wikipedia (oh... how I love thee...) that Aerospace engineering's elements are: Fluid mechanics, Astrodynamics, Statics and Dynamics, Mathematics, Electrotechnology, Propulsion, Control engineering, Aircraft structures, Materials science, Solid mechanics, Aeroelasticity, Avionics, Risk and reliability, Noise control and Flight test. But I don't know if all of this can be learned in the same degree or several. So, Aeronautical/Astronautical degree, Mechanical engineering and Advanced Phycics? Besides his Starfleet training.

That sounds right, the only thing is, a person focuses on one of those areas in an undergraduate degree. My best friend who graduated last yr here in aero was specialized in aerodynamics, which sounds broad because it's a relatively well-known term, but it is just as narrow as say "control engineering". He currently works as a flight engineer on the shuttle program since the shuttle flies like a super/hypersonic aircraft during takeoff in the upper atmosphere.

But it would be difficult for someone to become specialized in multiple areas of aero during undergrad. What happens a lot is that during graduate school, while on a project, internship or coop, a student is exposed to multiple discplines through an integrated project and is forced to then develop understandings of those other discplines. But this is more often experienced as a side effect of working on a project rather than taking a whole bunch of extra classes... and probably best so, since aero is an applied engineering field, the theoretical knowledge is not always that useful in application.

Given that we know Trip has to have a great grasp of propulsion physics but seems to have a much more intuitive knowledge of mechanical systems, I think that simply from a logical point of view, it makes sense to suppose that he has an undergrade degree in mechanical or even electrical engineering systems and then a masters in systems engineering while having worked very hands on with warp systems and thereby gaining a strong hands-on understanding of those systems. But he just doesn't strike me as a math geek, and he'd be a math geek if he had a formal education in particle physics. It doesn't take anything away from him - in fact I think one of the reasons everyone, T'Pol included, is so impressed with his knowledge is BECAUSE it was gained on-site rather than academically.

[Escriba]

So, I think Trip would have to have a specialty and maybe even a dual specialty (like House, hehe) but he wouldn't have to be versed in every system... I don't think think that'd be practical, even in the future. All chief engineers would be like 70 years old to get that much education.

*nod*Yes, I think I agree with you. About House... heee... I once had an idea for a House/Enterprise fanfic.

Given that we know Trip has to have a great grasp of propulsion physics but seems to have a much more intuitive knowledge of mechanical systems, I think that simply from a logical point of view, it makes sense to suppose that he has an undergrade degree in mechanical or even electrical engineering systems and then a masters in systems engineering while having worked very hands on with warp systems and thereby gaining a strong hands-on understanding of those systems. But he just doesn't strike me as a math geek, and he'd be a math geek if he had a formal education in particle physics. It doesn't take anything away from him - in fact I think one of the reasons everyone, T'Pol included, is so impressed with his knowledge is BECAUSE it was gained on-site rather than academically.

Didn't he have to try to create a stable warp field in "Anomaly"? I'm not saying it to refute you, it's just that I don't know what to do with that information .

And yes, I agree with T'Pol being impressed with his knowledge. That's what I missed more in the show: they don't tend to argue about work (at least, not much.) They argue more about food than about work.

[Asso]

And yes, I agree with T'Pol being impressed with his knowledge. That's what I missed more in the show: they don't tend to argue about work (at least, not much.) They argue more about food than about work.

Yeah!
If I think about the show, I understand you are right.

[CX]

My guess is that Trip would have a BS in Engineering and or Physics (as in a general degree) with some technical minors like Mathematics, and he probably would have to have a Masters in s more specialized type of engineering, my guess would be something specializing on spacecraft, and another Masters or a PhD relating to FTL propulsion.

My guess is that T'Pol specializes in the physical sciences as well as theoretical Physics. It appears that she also had some knowledge in the biological sciences.

[pookha]

he would have to be a math geek to do what he did in anomaly.
some people are math and other science geeks but just dont show it on the outside.
it maybe the hands on stuff may be more fun while the theoretical stuff just is there for him.
i have known some physics professors who were like that.
and some of the most brillant didnt come off as geek at all.

[Alelou]

And yes, I agree with T'Pol being impressed with his knowledge. That's what I missed more in the show: they don't tend to argue about work (at least, not much.) They argue more about food than about work.

Well, think who's writing this show: writers! They're usually about as far from math geeks or engineers as you can get. Those writers hated having to come up with technobabble almost as much as the actors hated having to say it. They'd have a technical manual for the show before they started writing, and I think they'd have techno geeks (who may or may not look geeky) come in from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory once in awhile and pick their brains and show them around the set, and maybe they had some designated techno continuity person who didn't really have time to do the job, but that was about it.

So almost anything you come up with will sound plausible to me, Escriba. Maybe you want to bounce it off the techno guys here first, though.