Misanthropic's new story - Reflecting To You

[pookha]

oh sarek was far from perfect
but a couple of things. spock and sarek did speak but as was said not as father and son.
so yeah vulcans can have problems with family.

[cherryblossomjen]

oh sarek was far from perfect

I think that's what makes him so intriguing.

I guess a character's own distinct flaws shape who he or she is just as much as his or her strengths. Even Soval. He was such a grumpy old man in the beginning of ENT, but as we got to see more of his complex personality I fell in love with him. He's still a grumpy old man -- but now we see the hints of compassion, righteous indignation and humor.

[Asso]

Ah, Sarek. I can't help but love him.

Still, he might not have had quite the same problems as T'Pol but he did have trouble maintaing relationships with those he loved, namely his sons.

I think we could even say he was sometimes "more than stubborn" too. When he and Spock disgreed, Sarek broke off their relationship. The two didn't speak for years. They were on good terms for a while after Sarek's surgery but later, they again stopped speaking when they disagreed about the Cardsassian issue.

It's frustrating to see (in both reality and fiction) how fragile relationships can be. Sometimes it takes a lot of determination and effort to keep things working and from my own experience, that can be hard if you're hurt. But it's not impossible. And if you do it successfully your relationship can be that much stronger. But as always, it's easier said than done.

Very "human", I believe.
And T'Pol?
Is she so Vulcan as to be "stupid"?
This is just too much, to me.
We have to remember: she is well aware she need Trip in order to control over her emotions.
So, why should she reject him?
That's enough, I say.
It's time for them to love each other, without such a lot of problems.
There will be equally adventures.

[Zane Gray]

I guess I still don't know what so many people have against angst. I appreciate that maybe some are tired of it, but I personally don't let the presence of angst alone decide the validity or quality of a story.

Consider that in the last four years, both of these characters have been through hell. T'Pol's first experience with melding was a telepathic rape. From this, she contracted a neural disorder. She was basically shunned by her people. Trip tried to follow his captain's example and save the Vissian cogenitor, but she ended up killing herself. Trip's friendship with Archer was damaged because of it. Trip and Archer's friend AG was killed. Then Trip's hometown was wiped out in the Xindi attack and his sister was killed - that was three months of anguish right there, even before they got back to Earth. T'Pol abandoned her allegiance to Vulcan to accompany her friends into the Expanse, where she was exposed to a dangerous chemical and became addicted to it, which damaged her neural pathways. T'Pol was attacked and telepathically raped again by Rajin. Trip was injured in a warp experiment and nearly died, only to recover and learn that a clone of him had been created and killed to save his life. Both Trip and T'Pol suffered all the stresses that the rest of the crew did in the Expanse, including having the ship shot out from under then when Archer left on his suicide mission. They met a son they'd never had, and T'Pol met her older self, only to see both either die or wink out of existance. T'Pol was pressured by her Mother and Koss to marry a man she didn't love, just at a time when she and Trip had come close to acknowledging that they loved one another. So they were forced to give up each other, despite their feelings. T'Pol was abducted and nearly sold into slavery by the Orions. T'Pol then lost her mother, and was treated like shit by her people once again. Then she learned that what she'd believed it meant to be Vulcan was completely wrong, so she buried herself into trying to understand what that meant. Trip nearly died twice, once from a silicate virus and once from radiation exposure on the Romulan drone ship. Hurt that T'Pol had pulled away from him, Trip pulled away too and left the ship. Hurt that Trip left, T'Pol discovered that she was bonded him. Upon his return, while they seemed to be trying to repair their relationship, he was still understandably distrustful of her and the bond. Then they both found out that a pack of xenophobic crazies had stolen their DNA and created a baby, that died shortly after they found it. And that's where Misanthorpic's story begins.

I don't know, it I were one of these two having just been through all that, I might be reduced to sitting in the corner in a straight jacket mumbling to myself and writing stuff on the wall with my own poop. Seem to me like these two have been battered repeatedly, and it seems natural to me that they're both hurting and emotionally wounded. And when we last left them on the series in Terra Prime, while they seemed to be pulling together, they still clearly had a LONG way to go before they were in a healthy place. At the point the series ended (and I mean the real ending and not the finale), it was clear that Trip and T'Pol loved each other, but still hadn't really gotten any of that out in the open with each other. Trip still seemed to distrust her a little, T'Pol still seemed tentative about expressing what she was feeling. They clearly hadn't adjusted to the bond and what it meant for them. And they hadn't even come close to communicating well or really fully embracing their love for each other, either to themselves or to each other.

So to me, Misanthorpic's story seems perfectly in keeping with what we've learned about these characters on the show. And I think the whole point of her story is that we're going to see what it is that finally gets them to heal their wounds and embrace one another in a healthy way.

I'm just saying.

[evcake]

Angst? Fine with me. As long as it gets resolved. I have a minimum daily mush requirement.

Go ahead. Wring my heart. I love it.

[Asso]

I guess I still don't know what so many people have against angst. I appreciate that maybe some are tired of it, but I personally don't let the presence of angst alone decide the validity or quality of a story.

Consider that in the last four years, both of these characters have been through hell. T'Pol's first experience with melding was a telepathic rape. From this, she contracted a neural disorder. She was basically shunned by her people. Trip tried to follow his captain's example and save the Vissian cogenitor, but she ended up killing herself. Trip's friendship with Archer was damaged because of it. Trip and Archer's friend AG was killed. Then Trip's hometown was wiped out in the Xindi attack and his sister was killed - that was three months of anguish right there, even before they got back to Earth. T'Pol abandoned her allegiance to Vulcan to accompany her friends into the Expanse, where she was exposed to a dangerous chemical and became addicted to it, which damaged her neural pathways. T'Pol was attacked and telepathically raped again by Rajin. Trip was injured in a warp experiment and nearly died, only to recover and learn that a clone of him had been created and killed to save his life. Both Trip and T'Pol suffered all the stresses that the rest of the crew did in the Expanse, including having the ship shot out from under then when Archer left on his suicide mission. They met a son they'd never had, and T'Pol met her older self, only to see both either die or wink out of existance. T'Pol was pressured by her Mother and Koss to marry a man she didn't love, just at a time when she and Trip had come close to acknowledging that they loved one another. So they were forced to give up each other, despite their feelings. T'Pol was abducted and nearly sold into slavery by the Orions. T'Pol then lost her mother, and was treated like shit by her people once again. Then she learned that what she'd believed it meant to be Vulcan was completely wrong, so she buried herself into trying to understand what that meant. Trip nearly died twice, once from a silicate virus and once from radiation exposure on the Romulan drone ship. Hurt that T'Pol had pulled away from him, Trip pulled away too and left the ship. Hurt that Trip left, T'Pol discovered that she was bonded him. Upon his return, while they seemed to be trying to repair their relationship, he was still understandably distrustful of her and the bond. Then they both found out that a pack of xenophobic crazies had stolen their DNA and created a baby, that died shortly after they found it. And that's where Misanthorpic's story begins.

I don't know, it I were one of these two having just been through all that, I might be reduced to sitting in the corner in a straight jacket mumbling to myself and writing stuff on the wall with my own poop. Seem to me like these two have been battered repeatedly, and it seems natural to me that they're both hurting and emotionally wounded. And when we last left them on the series in Terra Prime, while they seemed to be pulling together, they still clearly had a LONG way to go before they were in a healthy place. At the point the series ended (and I mean the real ending and not the finale), it was clear that Trip and T'Pol loved each other, but still hadn't really gotten any of that out in the open with each other. Trip still seemed to distrust her a little, T'Pol still seemed tentative about expressing what she was feeling. They clearly hadn't adjusted to the bond and what it meant for them. And they hadn't even come close to communicating well or really fully embracing their love for each other, either to themselves or to each other.

So to me, Misanthorpic's story seems perfectly in keeping with what we've learned about these characters on the show. And I think the whole point of her story is that we're going to see what it is that finally gets them to heal their wounds and embrace one another in a healthy way.

I'm just saying.

Very "human", I said this.
But: errare humanum (Vulcanianum) est, perseverare est diabolicum.
Incidentally, I like the angst, but enough's enough!
And the lightness and hope and humour also are the best of Enterprise.
I'm just saying, too.

[evcake]

To quote (or misquote) The film Witches of Eastwick: If we're going to have it, lets have it all.

[Rigil Kent]

I guess I still don't know what so many people have against angst. I appreciate that maybe some are tired of it, but I personally don't let the presence of angst alone decide the validity or quality of a story.

Based entirely upon what pookha said, I don't think that's the reason she has been disgruntled with the story thus far. Reread what she stated.

As for me, I've stopped commenting because, frankly, I'm a little tired of always causing a crapstorm whenever I state an opinion that appears to be contrary to that of the general populace which then leads me to having to defend said opinion. It happened previously with one of Elessar's fics, and it happened when I disagreed about the quality of TGTMD. Thus, beyond my "I agree with pookha" comment, I really haven't said anything about what I think since I read the second chapter, and it'll likely stay that way.

Then Trip's hometown was wiped out in the Xindi attack and his sister was killed - that was three months of anguish right there, even before they got back to Earth.

In the interests of accuracy, that's not correct. Bounty occurred on 21 Mar, and, according to the captain's log entry in The Expanse when the NX-01 arrived back in the Sol system, it was 24 Apr. The three months date comes from how long it takes the NX-01 to reach the expanse (7 weeks according to Archer's log entry in The Expanse) plus how long they've been in the Expanse and finding nothing when The Xindi begins (six weeks). In the interest of accuracy...

[CX]

Consider that in the last four years, both of these characters have been through hell.

Exactly, we've already seen them go through 4 years of angst. Isn't that enough?

And how many times do people have to keep repeating the same thing over and over before they learn from the mistakes they've made with each other?

[CoffeeCat]

[evcake]

Just read the third chapter. Great writing.

[Zane Gray]

This is obviously an old argument, which should never really have become an arguement in the first place. I don't think there's a crap storm here, and people shouldn't take comments personally. Everyone's got a right to their opinion. My intent is simply to defend the author's right to make such choices. We seem to be at a time with Trip/T'Pol fic where there's fewer stories and writers than there used to be, so I think it's important to encourage whenever possible. To me, the story fits with where I believe the characters were at the time. Everyone's mileage will vary. Carry on.

[Asso]

Consider that in the last four years, both of these characters have been through hell.

Exactly, we've already seen them go through 4 years of angst. Isn't that enough?

And how many times do people have to keep repeating the same thing over and over before they learn from the mistakes they've made with each other?

PRECISELY!

I already said this.
Mistaking is human, persevering is diabolical.
It is frustrating we see that people have the right things close at hand and do not grasp it. The Zane Gray analysis is perfect: Trip and T'Pol beared lots of angst.
Therefore, it is enough.
If T'Pol does not stop her not understanding, then, honestly, maybe it is better she stops every thing.
Nevertheless this is the way I am believing the things would have to be.
This his is removing anything from the possible beauty of the stories following other paths, different from mine.
I add a thing.
Differential, Zane Gray , is one of the most beautiful FICs I read, filled with angst.
But that angst was thing absolutely different from a gratuitous and useless angst.

[CX]

My intent is simply to defend the author's right to make such choices.

Yeah, she has every right to write whatever kind of fic she wants, we're just giving her feedback.

[Asso]

My intent is simply to defend the author's right to make such choices.

Yeah, she has every right to write whatever kind of fic she wants, we're just giving her feedback.

Obviously!!!