To all those who think TnT together would be boring

[Zane Gray]

TV writing often is a young man's game, and God knows it demands an incredible time commitment, but I just don't buy this argument. For one thing, some TV writers actually are MARRIED COUPLES (the Reeves-Stevens come to mind) and I'm you have to have a really strong marriage to survive that.

You know, I think that's true. A lot of writers are young and hungry and maybe don't have a lot of experience with married life enough to know how to write it well. And the fact is, advertisors definitely want a young audience which they probably feel wouldn't relate as well to a married couple. That's complete bogus reasoning, but I'm sure it's one of the many issues at play. I'd like to think, for example, that the next Big Brother installment CBS does would be married or older couples, but it isn't - it's young, hot, single, 20somethings. Must be what the spreadsheets tell the suits people want.

[blacknblue]

Ignoring the distribution of disposable income.

Also ignoring the established StarTrek fan base demographic.

[Alelou]

Ignoring the distribution of disposable income.

Also ignoring the established StarTrek fan base demographic.

True and true, although 18-34 unmarried males do have a LOT of disposable income, which is why advertisers love them. They generally don't have the kids and the mortgages yet.

Sometimes I wish the U.S. Census would ask people if they are trekkies. It would be nice to know just what slice of the population we are, and what the age distribution is. I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more than you'd guess from who's wearing costumes and going to conventions.

[CX]

TPTB might have sucked at getting TnT together, but as Worf/Dax showed us, it got better once they were established. And if angst truely is your thing (for whatever reason), there's more to angst than the kind of high school "will they/won't they" brand that we've gotten with TnT ever since Harbinger. Using Worf/Dax as an example again, look at that episode where Worf literally had to choose between his wife and his mission - in other words, angst, just a different kind. There were plenty of cases of that with Keiko/Miles with varying degrees of success, because let's face it, even that kind of angst gets old after a while, especially if it's poorly done. Even well done, the brand of angst that TnT got stuck with gets old after a while, simply because it makes the characters immature, and frankly pathetic. Another great example of that is on BSG with Lee/Kara. It has gotten to the point with them that I have ceased to care about them, because they are no longer interesting to me. But then, that's also why I don't much like horror movies either, because I find stupid people uninteresting, and I can't feel all that sympathetic for them. Going back to Lee/Kara, I don't feel sympathetic to their contrived little plight either. I couldn't care less that Lee destroyed his marriage or that Kara alienated Anders. In fact, if I feel sorry for anyone, I feel sorry for Anders and Dee. With TnT, we don't even have those kind of people to feel half-way sorry for, there is only TnT acting foolish and immature, and as much as I like the idea of them, this poor execution simply makes me angry at them. With the books making it look like there is no end to it in sight, frankly I doubt I will ever read them because seeing even more contrived angst is of no interest to me.

[enterprikayak]

True and true, although 18-34 unmarried males do have a LOT of disposable income, which is why advertisers love them. They generally don't have the kids and the mortgages yet.

Not *my* 18-34 male! I got 'im saddled up right proper! Yeeeee-ha!

'Course that does mean we have no disposable income. Darn it!

[blacknblue]

LOL!

When I was in the first part of that age range (in college) I starved my way from part-term paycheck to part-time paycheck. Once I got out we got married. Our daughter was born seventeen days before our first anniversary. I didn't know what disposable income was until I was over forty.

[CoffeeCat]

yah know - my husband has been 18-34 male for over 10 years now and his favorite Trek chick is B'Elanna - and he really liked it when she married Paris. Just like me.

[Alelou]

What real guys 18-34 like and what the suits THINK they like are bound to be different, though I'm willing to bet that tiny tank tops are going to be a part of both. Of course, the demographic with the REAL disposable income in this country is people over age 65. But they like Murder She Wrote and Diagnosis Murder. Imagine an Enterprise geared to the geriatric demo... maybe Phlox would be the star. No, wait, there would be no Phlox -- too kinky for that crowd! The warm-hearted but cranky ship's doctor would be Dr. Forrest. His son, Archer, would be captain. Tucker would be played purely for laughs, and T'Pol would probably end up being Archer's girlfriend. They could explore the universe looking for bold new ways to treat high blood pressure and arthritis... and all the commercials would be for pharmaceuticals...

[CoffeeCat]

I think the best entertainment is that stuff that never takes demographics into account. Tolkein didn't care about demographics when he penned TLOTR and that was an instant classic enjoyed by people all over the place. It's a stupid advertising science that should never be applied to creative endeavors to the extreme that friggin Star Trek has taken it. Yes, I can understand why they would want to target an audience, but it can be done in a way that isn't *that* offensive because other shows *have* done it, gotten away with it, and have served their industry well.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Disposable income isn't something TPTB worry about. They care about brands. Most consumers get set in their ways vis-à-vis market brand when they're young. They might not have much disposable income then, but they will when they get older, and by then they know what brands they like, so trying to change their minds then through commercials is for the most part an exercise in futility. Companies have to "brand" (pardon the pun) people when they're most receptive - and that's when they're younger.

At least that's what I've been told by advertisement fellows.

[Linda]

I don't see married couples as boring. New problems can come up between them or something from outside the marriage puts one or both of them in danger so they must work together to solve a problem. Were Lucy and Ricky Ricardo boring? Or the sleuth team Nick and Nora Charles? I like the repartee between established couples. It can be quite intersting and often humorous. Mature relationships can be rich and exciting. It is up to us writers to make them so. I think we are all up to that challenge! So let's get writing!

[evcake]

Hmph. It's been a while, but I recall plenty of angst (and romance too, come to think of it) in my young marriage.

Of course, the demographic with the REAL disposable income in this country is people over age 65. But they like Murder She Wrote and Diagnosis Murder. Imagine an Enterprise geared to the geriatric demo... maybe Phlox would be the star. No, wait, there would be no Phlox -- too kinky for that crowd!

Hey! I'm not 65 yet, but no weight of years is going to make me like Diagnosis Murder.

[Asso]

I don't see married couples as boring. New problems can come up between them or something from outside the marriage puts one or both of them in danger so they must work together to solve a problem. Were Lucy and Ricky Ricardo boring? Or the sleuth team Nick and Nora Charles? I like the repartee between established couples. It can be quite intersting and often humorous. Mature relationships can be rich and exciting. It is up to us writers to make them so. I think we are all up to that challenge! So let's get writing!

Nick and Nora Charles?
It's this, it's this!
I was needing only that!
Sure, Linda, sure!
That's the key!

[Asso]

Hmph. It's been a while, but I recall plenty of angst (and romance too, come to think of it) in my young marriage.

Of course, the demographic with the REAL disposable income in this country is people over age 65. But they like Murder She Wrote and Diagnosis Murder. Imagine an Enterprise geared to the geriatric demo... maybe Phlox would be the star. No, wait, there would be no Phlox -- too kinky for that crowd!

Hey! I'm not 65 yet, but no weight of years is going to make me like Diagnosis Murder.

Ahem... honestly I ABSOLUTELY agree with you!

[Alelou]

Hmph. It's been a while, but I recall plenty of angst (and romance too, come to think of it) in my young marriage.

Of course, the demographic with the REAL disposable income in this country is people over age 65. But they like Murder She Wrote and Diagnosis Murder. Imagine an Enterprise geared to the geriatric demo... maybe Phlox would be the star. No, wait, there would be no Phlox -- too kinky for that crowd!

Hey! I'm not 65 yet, but no weight of years is going to make me like Diagnosis Murder.

Hey, I don't think anyone on these boards will ever like that show either, no matter how old we get. (Shudder.)

Maybe when we're in the nursing home we'll be demanding our old Star Trek reruns.

Which reminds me of that Australian lady in Trekkies 2 who joked about running a rest home called "Decaying Orbits."