Expectations for T'Pol

[Alelou]

What is "Character Pro 5"? Is it a software program for creating characters?

Trip as cheerleader, huh? I guess I could see that. So what's the skinny on that?

Earlier I was not trying to imply that Trip would actually want a traditional female to fawn over him and make him feel special -- he wouldn't -- but one of the risks in a relationship where one person is usually the giver (or the cheerer-upper) and the other usually the taker or the problematic person or whatever is that the giver can get tired and resentful after awhile that HIS needs are never taken into account, possibly never even register with the other person. Trip by nature doesn't tend to make his needs known -- he's often not even aware of them himself -- and T'Pol by nature is just too preoccupied with figuring out her own place in the world.

Short term they probably feel they were made for each other. The challenge would be making it work over the long term -- much more so for these two, who have so many cultural hurdles to get over and no obvious place to call home.

[Escriba]

Yes, "Character Pro" is a software for creating characters, based on the enneagram system. Sometimes it's helpful; the best part is trying to imagine the character for yourself though.

Trip's development would be (I've created it for the third season, so the fourth could be different):

Trip is extremely extroverted, always on the go, living outside his mind in the real world. He is full of life, living out loud. Imaginative and charming. Lives for new and exciting experiences. However, at this level, he is not interested in experiences he considers detrimental to himself or others. The reason Trip lives so much outside the mind is that there's something inside he would rather not deal with, whether it's a tragic event during childhood or simply a lonely childhood that caused a lot of anxiety. This sub-type is people-oriented, enjoying contact and interaction with other people. There's an underlying understanding of tragedy, so he will bond quickly to others who suffer, trying to lift them up and distract them the way he distracts himself.

Trip's character flaw is based on the incorrect belief that suffering can be avoided indefinitely. During the story, he learns that always focusing on the positive is limiting and, although he seems to be living life to the fullest, he's actually missing an important part of life - the dark side.

When he's under pressure, he becomes rigid and self-limiting. When he's relaxed and secure, he takes time to think things through.

Trip is most probably the product of two conditions as a child: He was disconnected from his care-giving figure, who either didn't know how to show real love or didn't have the opportunity because of poverty, abuse or apathy. This child learned he couldn't depend on the care-giving figure. Combine that condition with a tragedy like abuse, witnessing something horrible or being picked on by other children and he was driven outside himself, finding intense experiences as a great distraction and a way to, at least, feel happy. As an adult, he has always been extroverted and the life of the party, rarely showing anyone that he is not truly happy. He tells others he had a great childhood, which we know is not the truth.

This character is likely to have multiple degrees in different areas. He would know a lot about a lot of things. But you wouldn't know it. He acts freely without inhibition and most people are shocked to find out how much education he has. What he does for a living may be very sophisticated.

At work, Trip is up beat, innovative and fun to work with. Able to stay focused on the big picture, he is cool under pressure and able to inspire others to keep going. He's attracted to jobs where he can be independent, possibly running his own company.

Trip is loud and interactive, almost overly enthusiastic about life and especially the accomplishments of others. He piles praise on anyone who mildly deserves it, pushing everything to the extreme. Life is an amazing experience to him and he lets others know this. He's also very charming under pressure, able to talk his way out of just about any situation.

Dialogue examples: "I love that shirt!" "Great job!!" "I can't wait to get to the mountain!" Internal Dialogue: "I see the bright side. I feel good when I'm happy."

Trip can be enthusiastic, responsive and adventurous in a relationship. Others are initially drawn to his zest for life and adventure, but that wears thin when he won't acknowledge difficulties or pain. He likes partners who mirror his own self-image. Trip tends to be attracted to Type 5s (The Analyst) for friends and generally avoids Type 1s (The Revolutionary).


Trip and Archer connect in the pursuit of pleasure and activities. They're both ready with ideas and opinions and share an anti-authority attitude. However, Archer can get upset when Trip avoids difficult situations by making excuses. Trip, feeling limited by Archer's imposition of authority, resists domination and control from Archer. Archer may then see Trip as unreliable and negligent.

Malcolm's negative outlook and Trip's positive outlook can balance each other out. Malcolm enjoys Trip's optimism and pleasure orientation; Trip enjoys Malcolm's wit and restraint. Conflict occurs when Malcolm begins to think real concerns are being dismissed and attempts to counteract Trip's excessive optimism. Trip gets impatient with what seems like Malcolm's negativity.


Trip moves psychologically toward being genuinely happy. He faces the inner demon that haunts his inner being and learns it's something he can put aside and live without avoiding. He will find security with a care-giving type, who offers unconditional love that can be depended on, thereby truly curing what ails him. He becomes calm inside and out, but still ready for adventure as a celebration of what he has become.


It's mostly accurate, but the background part was a big

[Alelou]

Poem: "For An Amorous Lady" by Theodore Roethke, from Collected Poems of Theodore Roethke © Doubleday, 1966. Reprinted with permission. (buy now)

"He will find security with a care-giving type, who offers unconditional love that can be depended on, thereby truly curing what ails him."

Ouch. According to this analysis, poor Trip is SCREWED. No wonder Season 4 so totally freaks the poor boy out.

On a completely different note, I enjoyed this silly poem today and somehow thought it might relate. It's by Theodore Roethke.

For An Amorous Lady

Most mammals like caresses, in the sense in which we
usually take the word, whereas other creatures, even tame
snakes, prefer giving to receiving them.
-- From a Natural-History Book

The pensive gnu, the staid aardvark,
Accept caresses in the dark;
The bear, equipped with paw and snout;
Would rather take than dish it out.

But snakes, both poisonous and garter,
In love are never known to barter;
The worm, though dank, is sensitive:
His noble nature bids him give.

But you, my dearest, have a soul
Encompassing fish, flesh, and fowl.
When amorous arts we would pursue,
You can, with pleasure, bill or coo.
You are, in truth, one in a million,
At once mammalian and reptilian.

[Distracted]

*snicker* I wonder what his girlfriend thought of THAT one.

[Dinah]

Given the concerns people have stated here about how T'Pol was written, how would you have changed the character, especially in regard to her relationship with Trip? How would you have demonstrated that she was a true Vulcan and make it unquestionably a relationship between aliens?

I just wonder if we eliminate her fear and uncertainty, do we change T'Pol too much? Do we eliminate her vulnerability and, perhaps, part of the reason we were drawn to her in the first place?

[Distracted]

If T'Pol was a "true" Vulcan, in the sense of a Vulcan who always behaved in a manner acceptable to Vulcan society as it was portrayed onscreen, she would never have gotten involved with Trip to begin with. End of story.

See how boring that was?

I do think, though, that the writers could have portrayed her as a Vulcan society outlier, a misfit of sorts with a fascination for humans, without turning her into a drug addict or one of Archer's appendages. As has been pointed out previously, the Pa'narr syndrome could have been used to explain her poor emotional control AND her "giving in" to her attraction to Trip. The drug thing was arbitrary, completely unnecessary, and poorly handled to boot.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

As for whatever different personality types Trip and T'Pol respectively have and their compatibility (or lack thereof) with each other, I tend to think that this hurdle could be if not totally overcome then at least bridged in a satisfying manner with the help of the Bond. That is the main advantage of having a Bond. It would preclude all those pesky and angst-ridden misunderstandings that hitherto has plagued this poor couple. If they didn't have this Bond I think their future together would be rather bleak. Thus, the Bond will be the thing that facilitates their relationship and mitigate the inherent angst a mixed Human/Vulcan relationship would have. Then they (and we as viewers/readers) can move forward instead of revisiting the angst over and over again ad nauseam.

Whatever obstacles thrown at them after this point will be mostly external and not internal. It would have to do with how the Human and Vulcan societies cope with them, chain-of-command issues from Starfleet, how family and friends accept them or not etc. And eventually how they will be accepted, thus mirroring on a micro-level what goes on on the macro-level, with different worlds - Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar - coming together in common cause.

That's how I view the post-Terra Prime future anyway.

[CX]

Given the concerns people have stated here about how T'Pol was written, how would you have changed the character, especially in regard to her relationship with Trip? How would you have demonstrated that she was a true Vulcan and make it unquestionably a relationship between aliens?

I just wonder if we eliminate her fear and uncertainty, do we change T'Pol too much? Do we eliminate her vulnerability and, perhaps, part of the reason we were drawn to her in the first place?

It wouldn't have been all that hard, really. Just look at how Spock was able to forge strong friendships with his shipmates even though he tended to overcompensate his Vulcan-ness because of his half-human lineage. It might not be the same as becoming lovers with someone, but his old man, a 100% green-blooded Vulcan managed to fall for a human woman, even if he'll only publicly admit that marrying her was simply "the logical thing to do" we could tell that it was more than that even in what limited screentime their relationship was given.

She's supposed to be a scientist, right? So there should be some aspect of discovering more about other cultures that should've appealed to her, right? Then there's the intellectual level of Trip being a pretty smart guy - there's a lot of science involved in engineering, so they have that fellow scientist thing going for them. And then there was the aspect of challenging one another and discovering that they enjoyed being able to do that.

Establish respect between them, then a friendship. Have them try to find out more about each others' cultures, spend time together and get to know each other.

The drug aspect never should've been done, period. They started out well in the first season, and BTI had some great potential which would've provided a good jumping off point, had they only followed through with it. Instead, we got some pathetic attempts at AinT, which apparently went hand in hand with destroying T'Pol's character. Then when they decided to go back to TnT, they apparently decided to keep up the character assassination, which is why we got the Trell business. Once they got past that, they had an excellent chance to redeem themselves by that short exchange in Countdown, but instead they lost it by the next episode, and the next season gave us manufactured angst.

[hth2k]

Perhaps T'Pol should be considered completely Vulcan yet a personification of the heterogeniality of any group, specifically the Vulcan population. There is always variation among samples to some extent. Humans may have a greater dispersion or maybe not. Perhaps they just manifest the differences outwardly to a more visible or noticible extent.

She may be less sociallyculturally typical or emotionally less representative than the accepted norm of this era. She may be quite representative of an earlier population or not. We do not know. Populations characteristics change over time and may vary greatly over geographic dispersion over time.

Does her being of a type that has difficulty suppressing emotions make her less Vulcan? I would offer that it does not though it may lead to social/cultural/professional difficulties.She simply may not personify the current ideal.

Perhaps as she continues to gather perspective from more interactions with humans and other species the obvious will become apparent and she will accept herself for what she is which may lay a foundation for more successful interactions with others. I do not see her as particularly young, rather as equivalent to an early 30s human woman though perhaps more naive socially. Definitely inexperienced with humans on an intimate personal level.

The prime problem she has is communication, with herself and with others. Communication leads to understanding. Understanding usually allays inappropriate fear.

The writers on the show were often lazy and sloppy, perhaps even just bad examples of writers combined with poor control/leadership from the beebs. THis need not affect how anyone choosing to write their own tome. The author is free to decide how much if any baggage to inflict upon any character and how that character and others react to that.

HtH

All electrons used in preparing this missive are recycled.

[Pitseleh]

I have to agree with much of what has been said about how the character should have been written. Much of the groundwork for T'Pol was already there and it was great raw material to work with, but the writers really messed it up when they decided they needed to make the character more interesting in their opinion.

Even if T'Pol is a Vulcan, Vulcans are still individuals. To put T'Pol in the cold, rigid, seemingly emotionless category and keep her there would have been too boring. From the beginning, she displayed curiosity, we saw that she wanted to think for herself, she had a sense of humor , but she was still Vulcan. The writers should have worked developing the stuff they had already done, and stop trying to assassinate her character. A relationship with Trip? Well, a working relationship that grows into respect that grows into friendship that grows into love. Opposites attract; take a look at my parents if you don't believe me. I think they have enough in common, and yet enough characteristics to complement each other that it would work without adding too many plot devices in the way. But we're all 'shippers here, so I guess I don't have to defend this point. T'Pol's struggle with emotions? Use the syndrome, and throw the stupid addiction idea out an airlock while you're at it. Slip in T'Les' comment earlier; have T'Pol say it herself. Oh, and forget The Seventh; it was a lousy idea.

[blacknblue]

The seventh could have been an intriguing character sketch if it was done properly. As in, not a character assassination. If T'Pol had been presented as a competent operative who was chosen to go in and get this guy because she was familiar with the case, familiar with the suspects mindset and M.O., and because she had a personal stake in cleaning up the mess. And if it had not been, as Rigil would put it, a Super!Archer and Sidekick!Polly episode.

[Alelou]

And why the hell would Vulcan intelligence want to send her in anyway? It's just so stupid in every possible way.

[Asso]

Exactly. WHY?

[JadziaKathryn]

Because it was time-sensitive and she was the only Vulcan anywhere nearby?

I agree that the concept, per se, wasn't doomed from the start. (Like, say, *the_abomination*.) The execution was hideous. Pretty much you'd have to rewind all the way back to, "How about we send T'Pol after a renegade criminal?"

[Lady Rainbow]

Because it was time-sensitive and she was the only Vulcan anywhere nearby?

I agree that the concept, per se, wasn't doomed from the start. (Like, say, *the_abomination*.) The execution was hideous. Pretty much you'd have to rewind all the way back to, "How about we send T'Pol after a renegade criminal?"

Yeah, it was an intriguing idea. They completely screwed up how they translated it onto the screen. T'Pol (as they'd written her) didn't make a whole lot of sense as a Security operative. And she couldn't handle the consequences or her actions so she needed her memories deleted?? If she couldn't deal with it, she shouldn't have gone into the Security ministry in the first place. Period.

It would've made sense if Malcolm had to pursue a renegade criminal, just because of his background. T'Pol could've helped him there.