Expectations for T'Pol

[Asso]

Oh, I remember that scene.
Spine-chilling!

[panyasan]

I was not a TnT-er at the time. but that scene was really like... embarrasing to see.
And with A night in sickbay I - still not into any ships - was like what? tension between Archer and T'pol? Never noticed it, because it never was there.
I like to think also that they developed some kind of working together-friendship, but still the relationship in season 4 seems to be distant and at the end Archer is still talking to T'pol in the way like my culture is superior than yours. But still, you can be friend with some one how is annoying.

[Asso]

... But still, you can be friend with some one how is annoying.

Maybe, with some effort.

[Escriba]

But NO chemistry. Nope, nada, nibs. Is there any proof of this more apparent than that horrible scene where they're tied together? The one that makes you feel faintly nauseated with embarrassment for them both?

Why did you remind me that?

About the friendship about Archer and T'Pol, I don't know. Sometimes I could see it (the scene were Archer gives her the compass is a good example,) but other times it was unbelievable, like when Archer treates her like crap (as in any episode where she says A and he did exactly the opposite or "the abomination" itself, when Archer tells T'Pol the infamous: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened than you are." )

[Asso]

... like when Archer treates her like crap (as in any episode where she says A and he did exactly the opposite or "the abomination" itself, when Archer tells T'Pol the infamous: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened than you are." )

I'm thinking about a story where Archer gets killed by Trip, by graciousness and friendship.

[panyasan]

[quote="Escriba About the friendship about Archer and T'Pol, I don't know. Sometimes I could see it (the scene were Archer gives her the compass is a good example,) but other times it was unbelievable, like when Archer treates her like crap (as in any episode where she says A and he did exactly the opposite or "the abomination" itself, when Archer tells T'Pol the infamous: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened than you are." )[/quote]

The scene with the compass was touching, but that quote from *the_abomination* really - I wanted to scream to my tv-set when he was saying that. Very unpleasant thoughts about Archer were entering my mind...

[michelle]

I have to say the whole Friendship between TnT and Archer really aggravated me, it was just so badly written and in turn portrayed on the screen. I happen to be one of those peeps that never actually understood why either T'Pol or Trip could have been considered close friends with Archer. The scene's where Trip and Archer interacted always felt forced and the only times i felt CT seemed a little wooden in his performances (Water polo match vox sola). It always seemed that when ever Trip was in Archer's presence he lost about 15 years in maturity. Like when Trip had to shoot Archer in Hatchery and Trip came in whining about not believing he had had to do it. Far worse scenario's had occurred. And Trip really should have been much quicker to side with T'Pol from the moment Archer relieved her because clearly Archer had lost it. (Even tho it was the only episode i felt Archer was justified) And Trip just seems to kiss his arse a little too much, saying things like in Bound when he tells the orions "Cap'n Archer runs this ship you're sweet talkin' the wrong guy" so annoying, any excuse to have Trip big him up. And all of it felt totally unnatural, and it's not just because i dislike Archer because I like Reed just as much but Reed and Trip had a friendship that made sense and seemed genuine, they teased and joked around with each other, and seemed to have things in common like how to have fun, they didn't just kiss each others arse's.

T'Pol and Archer's friendship well, I suppose you'd have to become friends with someone you spend all year round with and have breakfast and dinner with frequently even if they annoyed you a little especially ((if he's supposedly your man's best friend)) if that person was a competent Captain after all, and he is a good Captain, and a really personable Captain as well (when not completely ignoring your valid points or being overly judgmental, opinionated and slightly hypocritical ) but an actual friendship between T'Pol and Archer was never really shown to my satisfaction, felt more like they just threw in a few scenes to say "look, see, Archer and T'Pol are really buddy buddy now" and always left me wondering when and where had they gotten so friendly. The Crying scene just was a massive WTFlyingF.

Sorry about the rant.

[Alelou]

The crying scene? You mean when she's crying about Archer going off to chase Xindi? Eh, if you really hate the trellium addiction than yes, it's irritating. Within the context of that, though, I thought it was reasonable and I didn't take it as A/T at all.

I didn't even register the Andorian comment in *the_abomination*. Sometimes you have a boss for whom you might have a lot of respect about some things and very little about others, but that doesn't mean you can't have affection for that person anyway. Archer would definitely have fallen into that category if I worked for him.

[Lady Rainbow]

I think the actors did what they could with what they were given...Archer wasn't written consistently and neither was T'Pol. On the one hand, Archer was the intrepid explorer, who wanted to see what was "out there." On the other hand, for someone who wanted to explore the galaxy, they saddled him with a lot of garbage.

Okay, I can understand Archer's initial grudge against the Vulcans, esp. when it came to his dad and the warp engine. Eventually, he does feel SOME respect for T'Pol and (to a lesser extent) Soval. Having Surak messing with his marbles a bit changed him too. But how can he be such a !@#!!! in his condescending attitude towards T'Pol, Trip, and Malcolm, especially??? And this guy's the FIRST STARSHIP CAPTAIN with the kind of attitude he has????

How can a starship captain ignore the recommendations of his chief of Security? I never could understand why Malcolm told Harris that he was loyal to Archer in "Affliction/Divergence". Archer never really deserved that loyalty, IMHO.

I could see Trip and Archer as good friends early in the first season, from the first scene in the shuttlepod in "Broken Bow". They had some things in common (i.e. the warp engine). And yes, there were times when they seemed buddy-buddy. As the series went on, though, I could see those two drift apart, esp. during that year in the Expanse. (umm...water polo? I think we should give Trip a medal! LOL! )No wonder Trip turned to T'Pol after Archer became Captain Ahab. In Season 4, I think the most touching gesture was in "Observer Effect" when Archer puts his hand on Trip's chest as Trip "dies".

Granted, TnT's relationship had its ups and downs (and writers' missteps. *neuropressure---cough* I think it'd been more believable if Hoshi was giving Malcolm acupressure or Reiki...hmmm, plot bunny...anyways...). And friendships have their ups and downs too, like Trip's and Archer's over the course of the series. But as for Archer and T'Pol...I was ready to scream at him after that "nurse routine" at the end of "Twilight". Not humorous, guys.

[michelle]

The crying scene? You mean when she's crying about Archer going off to chase Xindi? Eh, if you really hate the trellium addiction than yes, it's irritating. Within the context of that, though, I thought it was reasonable and I didn't take it as A/T at all.

Well I kind of have, she was very messed up emotionally, but I still think for her to go as far as actually shedding tears she would have had to have been very close to Archer and I just was never shown to my satisfaction that such a friendship existed. OK maybe she was suddenly realizing she wasn't able to captain the ship and broke down but even then I don't think she'd cry about it.

I didn't even register the Andorian comment in *the_abomination*. Sometimes you have a boss for whom you might have a lot of respect about some things and very little about others, but that doesn't mean you can't have affection for that person anyway. Archer would definitely have fallen into that category if I worked for him.

I agree, you live and work with people that are nice you are gonna like them to an extent but then there still needs to be something else that makes it a real strong friendship and what I saw never really translated to that between Archer and T'Pol. It was always out of the blue gestures that suddenly they were comfortable with."

I could see Trip and Archer as good friends early in the first season, from the first scene in the shuttlepod in "Broken Bow". They had some things in common (i.e. the warp engine).

Well Archer flew 'em and Trip built 'em. I can imagine when they were out for a beer after work the conversation was mainly on the piloting and some very basic design mods and not much else.

In Season 4, I think the most touching gesture was in "Observer Effect" when Archer puts his hand on Trip's chest as Trip "dies".

I have to say that was a very good scene and there you could see a real affection for each other and it reminds me of the scene Trip says he's leaving the ship, for me those are the only two scenes that ever gave me the inkling that these two were really friends and not just long time work associates.

I suppose i would have justed liked to have seen Trip disagree with Archer a little, tell him he's wrong now and then. Can someone remember a scene where Trip has ever thought Archer has been in the wrong.

[JadziaKathryn]

But as for Archer and T'Pol...I was ready to scream at him after that "nurse routine" at the end of "Twilight". Not humorous, guys.

Oh, I cringed when I saw that.

I do think that Trip and Archer's friendship cooled in season 3 but arguably began after Hypocritical Archer in "Cogenitor." The main problem with that friendship, IMHO, is that it was more often told than shown. The exact same goes for T'Pol and Archer's friendship. Apparently Archer is so fantastic that everyone automatically falls over themselves to be his friend. Again, there were some moments that are exceptions. With T'Pol, his defense of her in "Shadows of P'Jem," the "She took a bullet for you, do you really want to drag her back to Vulcan in disgrace?" speech. With Trip, as someone already mentioned, Archer's obvious grief in "Observer Effect." If we'd seen more of that, I think the friendships would've made more sense.

[Alelou]

Trip argues furiously with Archer in Daedalus -- with good reason.

He argues more good-naturedly with him in Desert Crossing.

I saw them as genuinely good friends brought together by work but also separated by rank and the demands of command.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Trip argues furiously with Archer in Daedalus -- with good reason.

[michelle]

Trip argues furiously with Archer in Daedalus -- with good reason.

He argues more good-naturedly with him in Desert Crossing.

I saw them as genuinely good friends brought together by work but also separated by rank and the demands of command.

HAHA just watched it. for some reason this episode I've only watched once before! THANK YOU! that was brilliant!

Ohhhhh it's the one where T'Pol says she's too busy for Trip; No I have seen this a few times, i just skipped everything that wasn't TnT, thats why I thought I hadn't seen it before.

(Desert Crossing doesn't count )

[Alelou]

Great!

Though I confess I kind of understood Archer's POV in that one too. It seemed like an honest disagreement, but the way Archer handled it just showed he was way too emotionally involved with that decision.