The World is Darker

[Alelou]

On ABC News last night they seemed utterly bemused that the last poll shows most religious people in America aren't actually very dogmatic and are willing to accept that other religions are as valid as theirs. I think only 24% felt theirs was the only path to salvation.

But if you've lived around those 24% it can be quite painful, I know. I grew up in Florida, remember? I got witnessed to all the time. I even had a spelling teacher in public school who wanted every kid in class who accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior to rise his hand.

I'm ashamed to admit I raised my hand, since I certainly didn't believe that at the time. But he was a big fat scary guy who I think was also the pastor at the neighborhood AME church. And I was a tiny little new kid. And I didn't want to risk being kept after school for soul-saving.

[Asso]

[Elessar]

His analogy is a really good analogy for describing how agnostics feels. I was a little surprised to see him put it out there like that, but . . . yeah . . .

In my own case, the religious people in my life never pulled any punches in describing their own view of the universe and how I fit into it: unbelievers go to Hell.

OK, I'm done. I shouldn't touch this discussion with a 10-foot pole.

That's the fascinating thing about the depth and breadth of religious society, you get examples from every extreme. That's basically my sister. I once asked her what she'd do if I married a Muslim woman just to freak her out *snicker*

Needless to say, she's not the type that believes that whatever religion you follow, if you follow it with your heart and you're a good person that you'll be alright. It's The way or the highway.

[CX]

But if you've lived around those 24% it can be quite painful, I know. I grew up in Florida, remember? I got witnessed to all the time. I even had a spelling teacher in public school who wanted every kid in class who accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior to rise his hand.

I'm ashamed to admit I raised my hand, since I certainly didn't believe that at the time. But he was a big fat scary guy who I think was also the pastor at the neighborhood AME church. And I was a tiny little new kid. And I didn't want to risk being kept after school for soul-saving.

He knew that was illegal, right?

[justTripn]

Doesn't matter if it's illegal if you are outnumbered. Let's say there is a prayer at a school function. You object, you look like a jerk.

[CX]

I still would, but then I wouldn't care if they all thought I was a jerk or not. Kind of like that girl from OK or wherever it was that stood away from the rest of her basketball team and recited the Pledge of Allegiance while they all stood in a circle and said the Lord's Prayer. I'm not an atheist, but I am a secularist, and I would have done the same out of principle.

[justTripn]

Good for you. We have a lot of Jewish people in our school district (the one's my kids go to, not my suburban school that I went to) so people are less likely to try to pull a "We are all Christian here, so lets just try to get away with it" with regard to prayers and one-religion holiday celebrations. For instance the "Christmas" music programs are "Holiday" programs and incorporate Christmas, Hanakhah, and Kwanza songs.

[Alelou]

Teachers in their classrooms can get away with a lot. (I speak as a former high school teacher myself.) This guy also used to take his shoes off in class and pick his toes. On the whole I thought it was a good school full of caring teachers, but I bet they were scared of him too.

According to a very interesting book I read awhile back, the jobs that appeal most to sociopaths (because they afford the most privacy in which to prey upon their victims) are: teachers, priests, and therapists.

[Asso]

True.

[Elessar]

I still would, but then I wouldn't care if they all thought I was a jerk or not. Kind of like that girl from OK or wherever it was that stood away from the rest of her basketball team and recited the Pledge of Allegiance while they all stood in a circle and said the Lord's Prayer. I'm not an atheist, but I am a secularist, and I would have done the same out of principle.

Try it in the military, dude. It's a little more than just intimidating, it's a career jeopardizer. We may not be there anymore, but we're not ALL that far from:

WARNING FOR LANGUAGE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4s9F7p3w9jQ



I put "none" on my religious affiliation for my dog tags. My sister flipped. She's like "But you won't get the last rites!!" but if I don't believe in it, isn't it pretty ridiculous to suggest that giving me something I don't believe in is going to save my soul?

I'm still considering having it changed some day, but I don't know. I don't know what I'd want it to say.

[CX]

I was in the Air Force for a while, dude, remember?

[Elessar]

I was in the Air Force for a while, dude, remember?

No, I know, I didn't mean for that to sound like I was tryin to tell you what it's like. I'm not even in, I just meant that even though on paper there's the whole 'freedom of religion' thing, in certain institutions, the realities of group pressure make it pretty much meaningless, and that the military is even moreso than the school system. I'm sure you probably did see it... but the AF is a little more educated on the whole than the Marine Corps. I would think that you're likely to find more academics and secularists there than in the Marines.

[evcake]

Hmmm...seems I read somewhere about the chaplain of an aircraft carrier - talking about finding worship space and time for all the varied religions represented in the crew. Muslims and Wiccans were mentioned.

Regardless of his attitudes, I will miss George. I enjoyed his books.

[Alelou]

Great banner, Evcake and JK!

[Distracted]

Regardless of his attitudes, I will miss George. I enjoyed his books.

I never read his books, but I listened to one of his routines on a LP when I was about 10 so many times that I still have parts of it memorized. It was a fake radio broadcast, complete with news bulletins and the "country top forty". My favorite parts were one "news bulletin" and the lyrics to one of his made up songs. The bulletin went like this (think deep newscaster voice here, and he actually SAID "bulletinbulletinbulletin" like an auctioneer or something.)

"BULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETIN

The sun did not come up this morning, huge cracks have appeared in the Earth's surface and big rocks are falling out of the sky. Details later on the ten o'clock report.

BULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETINBULLETIN"

And the song went like this: (in a heavy country twang)

"I'll send my sinuses to AAAArizona,
I'll send my liverrrr to Peruuuu.
I'll send my lungs and my kidneys for the summer to Sydney,
But I'm sendinnn mah heart to youuuuu!"