Which blade?

[Distracted]

F is tried and true. The spear is useful as long as you keep your opponent at a distance. The reverse hook also would disembowel quite nicely. It just won't slice. So the method of use for single combat would be as a parry and stab weapon and not like a broadsword. It's very doable, as you can see from the polearm video. Polearms aren't cutting weapons in the SCA. Hits can only be scored with an end-on stab. I'd go with F and have your man use it like a traditional polearm. Maybe serrate the blade or something so it doesn't look so recognizably human if he's an alien.

[blacknblue]

"Tried and true" is a good rule of thumb to go by. Research history and find out what was actually used, and then use some variant of that if you want to be realistic. Remeber that historically, most primitive societies (primitive meaning non-technical, as in sword-axe-spear) were not very wealthy in terms of resources. They did their mining by hand and/or using draft animals, and it was a slow and arduous process. Their weapons were hand forged individually, and tended to be simple and sturdy. Fancy and elaborate weapons were reserved for the ruling classes exclusively. The standard foot soldier was more likely to be carrying his own wood cutting axe, or his scythe. Or maybe his own quarterstaff. One reason that the falchion was so popular in those days was because it was simple (the thing was basically a huge butcher knife with a long grip) and because it could do double duty for civilian use as well as military. Hunting weapons like boar spears were extremely popular battle weapons, as were hunting bows. Most foot soldiers were peasants. meaning poor. POOR. POOR people. A spiked club was often the best they could do. Sometimes they made do without the spikes.

[Lady Rainbow]

Yeah, I was about to say F too.

hth2k mentioned the naginata. It's also a good option (I mentioned Hoshi using a naginata in one of my fics. LOL). Another long sword that was used against cavalry was the nodachi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodachi

or the nagamaki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagamaki

[Escriba]

The standard foot soldier was more likely to be carrying his own wood cutting axe, or his scythe. Or maybe his own quarterstaff. One reason that the falchion was so popular in those days was because it was simple (the thing was basically a huge butcher knife with a long grip) and because it could do double duty for civilian use as well as military. Hunting weapons like boar spears were extremely popular battle weapons, as were hunting bows. Most foot soldiers were peasants. meaning poor. POOR. POOR people. A spiked club was often the best they could do. Sometimes they made do without the spikes.

Yes, yes, I know, I don't have this problem with the other army. The other army is very usual: levée en masse, knights (part of a religious-militar Order) commanding them and being the real soldiers (although there are attempts to make their army "professional") and a very valuable cavalry (that is largely formed by a certain people from the Grasslands, very good horsmen.)

The drawn guy's army is, on the other hand, professional, or, at least, very prepared. They're Half-Elvens (so they live around 500 years, so they can fight against the grand-grand-father, the grand-father, the father and the grandson.) They're highly trained and stronger than the average Human. They have a lot of time to prepare their weapons. The weapons are the thing that is driving me crazy. They are made from obsidian and the Half-Elvens have no more metal than gold (a little copper, but it's used for the "gas pipes" on their caverns.)

That's mostly my problem.

[Distracted]

Obsidian, huh? Then you need to make it look like something that's been flint-knapped. You can't do the same things with obsidian that you can do with metal, but you can still make a decent blade. Dunno if that hook in F would be practical, though. It would be awfully fragile in obsidian, IMO. Here's a site with some examples of blades made of obsidian.

http://www.obsidianarts.com/page11.html

[blacknblue]

Egads. Obsidian? Why didn't you say so?

No hooks. Hooks are absolutely out. Think of obsidian as a very tough kind of glass. Unless my material science and engineering training was wasted, then A,C,E and F are impossible. B is unlikely. Scratch that, B is impoasible too. That point on the end would break off at the first hit.

That leaves D as your only option out of the original list. The other shapes can't possibly be crafted out of obsidian and remain sturdy enough for use in combat. Not unless you reinforce them with magic.

Bear in mind that obsidian will not penetrate steel. Leather maybe. Not steel.

If I were preparing a force of obsidian using warriors against a group of mounted knights, I would go with a highly mobile force archers and/or crossbowmen, with an equally mobile force of infantry to protect them. Snipe, harass and run, snipe, harass, and run. If they have no metal besides gold and a little copper, then they are in big trouble facing mounted calvary wearing metal armor.

Considered slingers? During the conquest of Mesoamerica the Aztecs used slingers that had preprepared ceramic ammunition of a standard size. Those, plus the archers, took a heavy toll on the Conquistadores. A lot of neck, chest, and face wounds were reported. I watched a show not long ago that tried out some Aztec weapons matched against the weapons of the Conquistadores. The flint and obsidian weapons of the Aztecs actually were superior in damage dealing ability. But only as long as they could strike from a distance. Once the Conquistadores got up close and personal, their steel swords and steel armor cut through the Aztec armor and weapons like butter.

[CX]

Springsteel would be the best material to use in a weapon like this. It would have some flex to it so it would be resistant to breaking.

[blacknblue]

No can do. The characters are half elves who only use obsidian. Thus the quandry.

[hth2k]

Can they work the glass with heat? If so they have alternatives.

If they know chemistry they have even more alternatives.

If they can heat and mold glass they can make containers to deliver chemicals at a distance. Slings and catapults augment archery in this. Containers may have two or more compartments that shatter on impact allowing things to combine and either create nasty things that may or may not simply go boom. Glass shards make nasty shrapnel. This would allow two or three component explosives and chemical weapons. Poisons are easily carried in glass containers and delivered relative safely and accurately.

Glass can be used to make caltrops, very good against cavalry. Other materials may also be used.H

Think punji sticks and pits well hidden.

Think small multi edged weapons, could be made of glass;
Shuriken
Chakram

Think blowgun
Think bolos.
The Aztecs made some quite nasty edged weapons with flint edges.

THink terrain. Mountainous terrain or muddy bogs are tough for horses and limit their usefulness. Same for armored troops and heavy weapons.

Think like Sun Tsu and use the enemies strengths against them. Technology and armor need supply trains. A guerilla force needs little. Weather and time are usefull if used correctly.


Glass in fairly thick sections is not nearly as fragile as one may think especially if properly supported.

Be creative!

HtH

[CX]

Anything that's glass, ceramic, or made out of rock is going to be a very brittle material. Great for compression, but the slightest bit of tension, and they snap like a dry twig.

[blacknblue]

Dunno if any of this might help. But:

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian

Obsidian is a naturally occurring glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock. It is produced when felsic lava extruded from a volcano cools without crystal growth. Obsidian is commonly found within the margins of rhyolitic lava flows known as obsidian flows, where the chemical composition (high silica content) induces a high viscosity and polymerisation degree of the lava. The inhibition of atomic diffusion through this highly viscous and polymerized lava explains the lack of crystal growth. Because of the lack of crystal structure, obsidian blade edges can reach almost molecular thinness, leading to its ancient use as projectile points, and its modern use as surgical scalpel blades.

Another Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepoztopilli

This describes the standard Aztec obsidian polearm used by their imperial foot soldiers.

The tepoztopilli was a common front-lines weapon of the Aztec military. The tepoztopilli was a pole-arm, and to judge from depictions in various Aztec codices it was roughly the height of a man, with a broad wooden head about twice the length of the users' palm or shorter, edged with razor-sharp obsidian blades which were deeply set in grooves carved into the head, and cemented in place with bitumen or plant resin as an adhesive. This made the weapon vaguely similar to the macuahuitl or "macana", however it had a much smaller cutting edge and a longer handle. This gave the weapon a superior reach, but blows had to be more carefully executed.

Halfway between a Halberd and a spear, the tepoztopilli was equally useful for slashing and thrusting. Conquistador Bernal Díaz del Castillo mentions that on one occasion his armour was pierced by an Aztec lance and that only his thick cotton underpadding saved his life.

Yet another article:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl

The macuahuitl (Nahuatl: mācuahuitl, other orthographical variants include maquahutil, macquahuitl and māccuahuitl),[1] a type of macana, was a common weapon used by the Aztec military forces and other cultures of central Mexico, that was noted during the 16th century Spanish conquest of the region. They also used other implements such as the chimalli (a round shield), the tlauitolli (bow), and the atlatl (spear-thrower).[2] Although sometimes called a "wooden sword", its appearance is closer to that of a club or a paddle. It was capable of inflicting serious lacerations from the rows of obsidian blades embedded in its sides.[3]

The macuahuitl was “three to four feet long, and three inches broad, with a groove along either edge, into which sharp-edged pieces of flint or obsidian were inserted, and firmly fixed with some adhesive compound”, probably rubber or chicle.[4] The rows of obsidian blades were sometimes discontinuous, leaving gaps along the side while at other times the rows were set close together and formed a single edge.[5]

The macuahuitl was made with either one-handed or two-handed grips as well as in rectangular, ovoid, or pointed forms. The two-handed macuahuitl has been described “as tall as a man”.[6]..................

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...................Several obsidian mines were close to the Aztec civilizations in the Valley of Mexico as well as in the mountains north of the valley.[10] In a Chichen Itza carving, a possible ancestor of the macuahuitl is shown as a club having separate blades sticking out from each side. In a mural, a warrior holds a club with many blades on one side and one shape point on the other, a possible ancestor of the macuahuitl.[11] The macuahuitl was an excellent tool for providing sacrificial victims: the design of the macuahuitl allowed the warrior to injure the opponent with the obsidian blades while the blunt top could be used to render an individual unconscious for easy capture and later sacrifice...................

----------------------------------------

................The macuahuitl was sharp enough to decapitate a man.[12] According to an account by Bernal Diaz del Castillo, one of Hernán Cortés’s conquistadors, it could even decapitate a horse:

Pedro de Moron, was a very good horseman, and as he charged with three other horsemen into the ranks of the enemy the Indians seized hold of his lance and he was not able to drag it away, and others gave him cuts with their broadswords, and wounded him badly, and then they slashed at the mare, and cut her head off at the neck so that it hung by the skin, and she fell dead. [13]

The macuahuitl also had some drawbacks. It takes more time to lift and swing a club than it does to thrust with a sword. More space is needed as well, so warriors advanced in loose formations.[14]

No actual macuahuitl specimens have been found and the present knowledge of them comes from contemporaneous accounts and illustrations that date to the sixteenth century and earlier.[15]

Another site purports to give information specific to Aztec weapons. It tells me that I was wrong about a couple of things. I can't say for sure, but this site claims that the Aztec spears did in fact penetrate Spanish armor, and that the Aztec slings (which this site claims had a range of 650 feet/ 200 + meters) could also.

This also agrees with the Wikipedia article about Aztec polearms. Perhaps I underestimated the design abilities of the Aztecs.

[hth2k]

Glass or ceramics in spherical forms are quite robust and heavy.They can make great projectiles that generate fragments that are quite lethal if delivered at high enough velocity.

Natural adhesives and various materials can be used to create a compact bow that yields high energy. The horsemen of the Steppes used recurve bows that could pierce armor. The small but powerful bows allowed mounted archers that were deadly to infantry. Their speed, small size and range would allow them to harass a mounted armored group of knights in many ways.

One reason I asked if they had knowledge of chemistry is that would allow the development of other materials that could be used for weaponry. Some composites have properties that are superior to metals in various uses. Sometimes a small amount of metal may be used in a composit matrix to create something superior to an all metal item. The use of materials with differing properties allows one to tailor the device under consideration, Metal isn't always the best or the only answer.

A pulltruded rod may be as strong as an equivalent metal rod. It may be lighter, stiffer, etc. Consider using long fibers in a polymer matrix. A natural equicalent of fiberglass say. What could you do with something like that? Sheets of such a material might make good shields of armor even. Ever use a fiberglass bow? A hammer with a composite handle?
A knife with a ceramic blade?

A culture that didn't have access to much in the way of metals may well develop other material science to compinsate.

Obsidian is a thermal plastic material in that it melts when heated and solidifies when it cools. (ok, I know glass is a supercooled liquid and not a solid, you know what I mean.) It may be cast, molded and shaped in many ways. What happens when you put class dust in a resin matrix? you have sanding/shaping tools that may allow you to make more comples things. Use other materials such as diamond dust or carbon, etc. Heck if Diamond is plentiful, you can use that for your points and curring edges.

Add fibers to resin and you have strong flexible materials. What if you added glass dust into a resin matrix to create a strong sharp point for a spear or arrow, crossbow bolt etc.? You could have hollow arrow shafts and extruded or molded shapes for weapons.

Imagine a composite arrow/spear point with a unbreakible shaft. Think of what a composite crossbow could do. They could concievibly have something like a modern compound bow.

There is a myth about the ancients polishing their shields and using them to reflect sunlight to start fires on an invading fleet of wooden ships. The massed shields were said to be used to create a giant parabolic reflector to concentrate the solar energy. Gold reflects infared quite well.

Again be creative with the materials availible. Use the terrain to your advantage. Attack the enemy when they are taveling, in bad terrain or encamped or sleeping. War is serious. The only way to make war is to fight to win. The cheaper you win the better. The best win is not to have to fight. Winning happens with the intellect, it is the most powerful tool you have.

HtH

[Escriba]

Thank you so much for your ideas, you're been extremely helpful.

So, as it seems, better if the Half-Elven army uses bows and other weapons to "throw things". Mmmm... Interesting...

Egads. Obsidian? Why didn't you say so?

Because I'm weird? No, the thing is I was considering different ideas and I wasn't sure. You know, I could use obsidian as we know, or make a different obsidian for my world (some type with metalic veins or an alloy) or even give in an allow the Half-Elvens to buy some metal (they have the most precious thing of my world to commerce with, after all.) So I wasn't sure, that's why I asked. The only thing I was sure that it had to be of obsidian were the Half-Elven daggers. That I knew, the other was relative

By the way, most part of the horsemen have leather armours, not steel. Only the knights of the Order use heavy metallic armours. The Grassland's horsemen believe in a quick and flexible attack system (I had thought in spears for them, but now that I think about it, maybe it's better if they use bows and arrows.)

This also agrees with the Wikipedia article about Aztec polearms. Perhaps I underestimated the design abilities of the Aztecs.

Well, the Aztecs were a real pain in the ass for the Spanish Armada. They only lost because their war technique was "taking prisoners" instead of "killing all the men and rapping all the women" which was the Spanish way. Aztecs had a very complicate protocol for war.

Can they work the glass with heat? If so they have alternatives.

If they know chemistry they have even more alternatives.

Not very sure about that. They could use a little chemistry, but I don't think they could be experts. I mean, I don't know how much do you have to heat the products to make other composed materials. They have gas, maybe they could regulate the fire enough to heat things at a really big temperatures. That's something to considerate.

What I was thinking? Well, first of all I was thinking in making Half-Elvens a "guerrilla" type of army. You know: attack and hide, attack and hide. They should defence themselves when they have to protect their citadels (which are inside caves, by the way.) They are two types of Half-Elvens: the ones who live in the mountainous North (they hide there and are a real nightmare for the Humans because you can't attack them by horse), and the others who live in the interior part of the Desert. Because they live in a desert is difficult to defeat them even with a bigger army, because "bigger" only means more troublesome to move (you have to mantain all those soldiers alive, after all, protect your water resources and treat the horses better than the people.)

The Half-Elvens have limited resources in the Desert: obsidian, gold, silk, copper (but not enough) and sand. I guess there is a problem to think they can make ceramic, because they don't have clay (or maybe yes, because there are underground lakes, and if there is a lake, there has to be clay, doesn't it? As far as I know, at least.)

But anyway, thanks for your imaginative ideas, they're wonderful (and Distracted's videos are very instructive.)

[blacknblue]

Inside caves? Beautiful What more could you ask for? A fortified citadel with a source of explosive gas located within a confined space? It practically defends itself.

BTW, can you say "Flame Thrower"?

If they have piping for their gas, then they have everything they need to make high intensity glass furnaces. They could probably produce tempered glass. If they live 500 years, I would not be surprised to see them making something equivalent to pyrex. And most likely fiberglass like Ht suggested as well. Fiberglass is really not that hard or complicated, once you grasp the inherently weird idea of using glass as a spring in the first place.

If they live in caverns, and if any of them are limestone caverns, then they probably have saltpeter. If they have ever tinkered around with alchemy at all, out of sheer boredom from having centuries of staring at the walls if nothing else, there is a good chance that one of them has come up with one of the many versions of gunpowder. There is a slop bucket full of ways to make primitive gunpowder. Our standard formula of saltpeter-sulfur-charcoal is only of them, and not even the best one. It is just the easiest and cheapest.

The desert people sound like they would be expert glass makers. And many desert dwelling Amerindians were extremely sophisticated pottery makers. A lot of desert areas were once covered with water remember.

[hth2k]

Remember a sufficiently advamced technology may be considered "magic" by one unable to comprehend how it works.

Perfect explaination for Elves using "magic"

A long lived species in a metal poor world skips the iron and steel age and moves directly 100 steps forward to the composite age.

Diamonds are found in the throats of old volcanos. You have a supply of the hardest most durible material known. Contrary to popular belief, diamonds are also not naturally rare.

HtH