Spock and T'Pol conjectures

[Asso]

I hate to break it to you, but ENT was a collection of limp prequel plots. The premise was interesting, and there were some things they got right and worked, but overwhelmingly the series really wasn't that good, and it utterly failed as a prequel.

Well, CX. This is your opinion, and probably of many other people, I think. But it's not mine, and probably many other people are speaking my same language.

[JadziaKathryn]

Shameless plug: Rather bored with the Spock-is-related-to-T'Pol line, I once wrote a vignette in which T'Pol is the ancestor of another Trek Vulcan. Lineage

Anyway, I'd just like to point out that Daniels and his whole "Archer is crucial to history" spiel pretty much ruins the history-forgets-the-first-Enterprise idea. Yes, of course important historical figures can be forgotten. (Although I find it a stretch to believe in this particular case.) But if Archer is such a linchpin (I see you all rolling your eyes!) then Enterprise can't have been forgotten.

[CX]

Which is why he shouldn't have been one. That's part of the point I was trying to get across.

[JadziaKathryn]

Who's going to make a TV show about a bunch of people nobody cares about later? Realism is one thing, but seriously.

Scene: Paramount exec's office.

Enter Rick Berman.

EXEC: So, you want to do a Star Trek prequel? Kirk's childhood hero?

BERMAN: shifting uncomfortably Well, actually, if we want to fit in with canon, this crew has to be pretty much forgotten.

EXEC: stares in disbelief WHAT???

I'm not seeing that ever going anywhere.

[CX]

The point is to make the audience care about the crew. That isn't accomplished by making the captain an arrogant, dysfunctional Gary Stu.

[Distracted]

Shameless plug: Rather bored with the Spock-is-related-to-T'Pol line, I once wrote a vignette in which T'Pol is the ancestor of another Trek Vulcan. Lineage

You linked to the live preview instead of the story page, JK, so your link doesn't work. You need to go to your profile page and link to the story from there, like this. Lineage. A sweet little vignette, BTW.

[Alelou]

I suspect this is where we really split, CX. Not just whether plots should be big and dramatic and history-changing, but over Archer. I did read Foundations, although I'm afraid that was back when I was reading everything Enterprise I could get my hands on so it wasn't exactly a leisurely and thoughtful read. I remember thinking it was not really as different from the series as I would have expected from the advertising. It mostly struck me as earlier with the TnT and much more vivid with the Archer foibles. Again, you'll have to forgive my vague memory. Any rate, I'm certainly still interested to see more Foundations.

Yeah, Enterprise definitely had many weak episodes -- all ST series do if you ask me -- and yeah, Archer isn't my favorite character -- though I certainly prefer him to Kirk or Janeway. Picard and Sisko were more inherently interesting characters, and it doesn't hurt to be so much better acted. But I consider Archer a believable captain, and a fairly likeable one. I certainly don't think he ruined Enterprise. I obviously find Enterprise pretty compelling.

[CX]

And I find Archer and ENT to be so flawed, that it has aged almost as badly as TNG has for me.

As for his FND counterpart... well, let's just say that some changes and some humbling were in order and you'll see something happen about that before Season 1 ends.

[Asso]

Shameless plug: Rather bored with the Spock-is-related-to-T'Pol line, I once wrote a vignette in which T'Pol is the ancestor of another Trek Vulcan. Lineage

Very pretty, JadziaKathryn.
I didn't know it.

[justTripn]

And I find Archer and ENT to be so flawed, that it has aged almost as badly as TNG has for me.

As for his FND counterpart... well, let's just say that some changes and some humbling were in order and you'll see something happen about that before Season 1 ends.

Because I Loved Enterprise, I don't think I'm being mean when I say that the only fanfic writers who write stories better than the canon episodes are Rigel Kent or Alelou when they are at they're best. And Alelou was nice enouugh to credit the athors she whose story she was riffing off of.

[Zane Gray]

I think a meeting between a young Spock struggling with his emotions and heritage, and an elderly T'Pol who would have a unique perspective on such things to impart on the boy, would have made a certain amount of sense. And I think it would even have been likely from a historical perspective. Vulcans seem pretty logical about the value of the wisdom of age and experience, and who better than T'Pol to advise Spock on his situation? Soval and T'Pau would both know of T'Pol's appropriateness in such a role, so I could easily see such a meeting happening before T'Pol died.

As for Archer, I really disliked the character in the first two seasons, frankly enough to stop watching the show for a time. But then I really began to like the character in the last two seasons. If there had been an episode in a fifth season where Archer reflected on how foolish he'd been early on, and how naieve and full of himself he'd been, and had now grown some humility after everything he'd gone through... that would have been a satisifying way to bring the character full circle for me. I like the idea that the character was - not a moron, but very arrogant early on. After all, he was the first starship captain to really be tested by the galaxy, so it only stands to reason that his journey - and transformation - would be more severe and difficult. The real problem was the producers' characterization of him in those first two seasons. He was sometimes just too much of an ass, and he seemed to lack maturity. But I like where he was heading by the end of the series a lot.

[Asso]

I think a meeting between a young Spock struggling with his emotions and heritage, and an elderly T'Pol who would have a unique perspective on such things to impart on the boy, would have made a certain amount of sense. And I think it would even have been likely from a historical perspective. Vulcans seem pretty logical about the value of the wisdom of age and experience, and who better than T'Pol to advise Spock on his situation? Soval and T'Pau would both know of T'Pol's appropriateness in such a role, so I could easily see such a meeting happening before T'Pol died.

Pretty and touching.

[CX]

Because I Loved Enterprise, I don't think I'm being mean when I say that the only fanfic writers who write stories better than the canon episodes are Rigel Kent or Alelou when they are at they're best. And Alelou was nice enouugh to credit the athors she whose story she was riffing off of.

The vast majority of the authors here write stories better than the canon episodes, even at their worst.

[michelle]

The vast majority of the authors here write stories better than the canon episodes, even at their worst.

I'll second that Opinion!

[Alelou]

Well, I don't, and I certainly include myself in that. As fanfic writers we write what we feel like, focusing on our favorite characters to our heart's content, without regard to the rigors of the commercial teleplay format, the need to keep a general audience as well as a maniacal fan base relatively happy, and budget and time constraints we can't even imagine.

It's essentially comparing apples and oranges to compare writing fanfic to scripting Enterprise. Even Foundations would have to be considered a failure by TV standards, because it obviously can't handle regular production deadlines.

Fanfic is fun. Sometimes it's even beautiful, sometimes it crosses over into creating new characters and truly original stories. But when you come right down to it, it's still just fanfic -- a highly-derivative, highly addictive pastime that exists solely to give pleasure (or relief) to fans.