Trip and T'Pol's future in the relaunch novels - Your Though

[CX]

That first bit depends on who you ask and how delusional they are.

I still feel that it's a valid comparison and if nothing else it simply echoes what the pathetic other 'ship has been going on about since *the_abomination* aired and disturbs me to think that the future of our 'ship could in any way resemble that.

[Shakabutt]

Ok guys,i'm fairlly new at this shipping bussines ,but isn't it wrong for one ship who got their favorite couple together in a romantic relationship,on the show,and in the book to be compared to people from a ship who called in at Paramount in season 3 and said "If Archer and T'Pol don't become involved il stop watching ENT !!!!" and then have the receptionist there brush him of like a insect and insulting him ,people who sent postcards and letters with their slogan "The Logical Choice " and kept yelling on the boards before season 3 "PROTECT YOUR SHIP !!!!!" ,people who boycoted Harbinger just because Trip and T'Pol had sex ,who have campaigns to get the authors from the relaunch books to bring Archer and T'Pol together ,and after seeing that it didn't work starts bashing the book every chance they get without even reading it ! ,people who call good episodes of season 4 stupid and lame just because Trip and T'Pol interact romantically in them .

Ok ,saying you didn't like the book is fine by me,i'm not a cheerleader for this book ,but bashing it without even reading it its pathetic ,just what A/Tp people do.

From what i've read in both major ship forums for both sides , i got this ,the T/T people act like a fans of the relationship ,to me some actions from the A/Tp fans is pretty extreme ,they act more like cultist for that ship .
Sure there are some ardent fans on both sides ,but on the A/Tp there are some wacked out ones ,who will sell there grandmother to get Archer and T'pol together .

I don't think the two ships can be compared.

And this coment isn't an insult to you CX ,i respect you and Rigil greatlly ,both of you are awesome writers .

[aeverett]

If you think that was bad, the Subtext/Shippertext thing in the Xena fandom would give you a seizure.

[Shakabutt]

there is enough subtext /shipper text on the A/Tp forum to make me throw up, when you see a post like : "WE GOT FANFIC TO FIX THIS!" "LOOK SHE TOUCHED HIM ,OHHHHH MY SHE TOUCHED HIM!!! " "WE KNOW THEY WILL END UP TOGETHER ,HOLD ON ,WE WILL WIN !!!" "*the_abomination* IS A MASTERPIECE ,THEY HUGGED !!!! ,THEY WILL DEFINITELLY GET MARRIED NOW !!! " .
They waited 4 years to get a hug ,gah.

[boushh]

CX, so you're implying that we are delusional and that our opinions disturb you, despite all the points that we make? We aren't delusional for thinking that T/T are in love, bonded and want to be together. That is in the book. They are in a relationship, even if it is a long distance one at the moment. It may go sour or it may not, but there isn't anything wrong with us looking forward to where they take the relationship. What are we supposed to be doing? What is the appropriate response? To say it ain't gonna happen and that's that? It sucks? It's like you're taking sides and looking down on us because you don't share our opinion. Well then we must be nuts for not sharing your opinon. That may not be your intent, but that is how it's coming across with your choice of words and comparisons.

What saddens me is not people looking forward to the future for T/T but those who look down on them for doing so. We just enjoyed the book and hope to see mroe of them. I am not going to apologize for being a fan of this ship or for behaving like a shipper... meaning looking forward to what is in store for the couple and hoping for a good outcome. There is nothing odd or delusional about that. It isn't something that is exclusive to the hated ship around here. It's true for any ship out there.

Can we please have respect for the opinions of the posters here (as well as quit talking about the OT that is the A/T'P shippers) so that we can actually discuss the book and the future of T/T in the books?

[Linda]

I am skipping around in the thread here, but I caught a phrase from Rigil saying he thought the book was mediocre. Not sure which book, but yeah, I think both TGTMD and LFM could be tagged as mediocre, with some highlights. I am not quite done with LFM but am enjoying the exciting parts with both shuttlepods in danger of blowing up. And I enjoyed the new Romulan scientist character in TGTMD who was not just a cardboard character. Most of all, and other people would probably just shrug shoulders, I thought the idea of the color green as meaning danger to a Romulan (or any Vulcanoid) was a brilliant concept! Heck, I wished I had thought of it! Its one of those very logical staring you in the face concepts that is hard to spot. I will probably use it in my fics, citing the source, naturally.

One thing I am having a problem accepting, and maybe those who are familiar with the Navy and the Marines can help out here. Travis is an officer. Chang is very low on the non-commissioned officer ranking level. How the heck is Chang even bunking in with Travis? Wouldn't they more logically double up the Starfleet people with each other and the MACOs with each other? Or why not convert a storage bay into a bunking area for all the MACOs? Then, Chang seems like he is trying to give Travis orders in the shuttlepod. That seems way out of line considering their respective ranks. I know that the friction between the Starfleet people and the MACOs makes for good drama, but is it even close to what happens in a real military organization?

[blacknblue]

Chill people. Calm down.

*gentle smack*

Y'all are going off on each other over nothing at all. Some folks are getting so het up over winning the argument that they forget there ain't on argument to win in the first place. Yes, Trip and T'Pol did break up at the beginning of the book. They did that because the abomination said that they broke up after Elizabeth died and the writers of the book HAD to do it that way inorder to maintain consistency with the abomination. Personally, I dislike the fact that they even bothered trying to maintain consistency with the abomination, but then again, they had to satisfy the suits at Paramount. Economic reality is what it is.

Later in the book T'Pol realized that she loves Trip and this break up idea wasn't her brightest and best notion. Trip gets to mooning over T'Pol while he is off hobnobbing with the Romulans. They get together through the bond, even though T'Pol is wondering if it is real.

At the end of the book, T'Pol finally gets a note that leads her to meet Trip in his new disguise as a Romulan. He explains what happened and tells her about Archer, Malcolm and Phlox knowing about it. T'Pol realizes that she was left out of the loop because she did nto have an operational need to know, but she is still pissed. She and Trip end up smooching and acknowledging their feelings. Trip has to go back to Romulan space, but he promises to return to her once his mission is completed.

At the end of that scene, T'Pol takes out the bracelet that Elizabeth wore and thinks about that her death represented the last chance she and Trip had for a future together. Ambiguous.

Admit it folks. It leaves things ambiguous. They are pulling a Soap Opera on us. The writers are deliberately yanking us around by dragging out the angst as long as they possibly can in order to sell books. You know damn well they are. And they will continue to do so as long as they possibly can until they reach the point where it becomes economically more viable to bring Trip and T'Pol together than it is to leave them dangling.

There is no reason to fuss about it. This is how the business works. So yes. There is a real relationship in the book and it will no doubt continue because that is what the fans like. Will it be settled any time soon? Nope. Because the angst and uncertainty sells books. Or so TPTB believe. Therefore we can expect to continue to be yanked around indefinitely as long as the relaunch lasts.

No basis for arguing at all. Everyone is correct in the particular aspect they are presenting.

[Rigil Kent]

I am skipping around in the thread here, but I caught a phrase from Rigil saying he thought the book was mediocre. Not sure which book, but yeah, I think both TGTMD and LFM could be tagged as mediocre, with some highlights.

Both, actually. In either case, I was initially quite excited about the books because they were new ENT stuff that was official (and my reviews generally reflect that excitement), but as time passed and I attempted to reread the books, I found them not as good as initially thought. The prose was flat, IMO, and, especially in TGTMD, there were too many errors in regards to the actual canon of the show.

One thing I am having a problem accepting, and maybe those who are familiar with the Navy and the Marines can help out here. Travis is an officer. Chang is very low on the non-commissioned officer ranking level. How the heck is Chang even bunking in with Travis? Wouldn't they more logically double up the Starfleet people with each other and the MACOs with each other? Or why not convert a storage bay into a bunking area for all the MACOs? Then, Chang seems like he is trying to give Travis orders in the shuttlepod. That seems way out of line considering their respective ranks. I know that the friction between the Starfleet people and the MACOs makes for good drama, but is it even close to what happens in a real military organization?

It doesn't make any sort of sense whatsoever. You would not have an EM and an officer bunking like this, and an enlisted guy is never going to be telling an officer what to do the way they had Chang doing, regardless of branch. That was one of my moments in book that totally ripped me out of the moment. I question the wisdom of converting a "storage bay" into a bunking area as a solution because, since ENT is going deep into enemy territory with little to no chance of contact with Earth, they're going to need those storage bays for supplies and the like.

But, as has been displayed time and time again, logic has no place in the Trek universe.

Therefore we can expect to continue to be yanked around indefinitely as long as the relaunch lasts.

Truer words have likely never been stated. It's less than 50/50 that I'll pick up Kobayashi Maru for that reason. I don't like being "yanked around." It's why I stop watching many television shows once they reach that point. It's why I came dangerously close to leaving Enterprise again during season 4. It's why I'm teetering on the edge of leaving Battlestar Galactica. Yeah, I get that some people like this sort of angst but I'm not one of them. I don't watch soap operas for a reason, and when a favorite show of mine starts heading in that direction, I'm generally looking for the exit.

But that's just my opinion, which is worth the digital paper that it was printed on.

[boushh]

I'm calm. I wouldn't have a problem as long as the discussion is about the books and their content, rather than the posters.

And yes, things are up in the air for T/T, but as far as I'm concerned it's circumstances and the mission that is in their way for now. Whether that will change remains to be seen. And I'm OK with angst to a point. I haven't reached the point where I've had enough. Some things needed to be dealt with a certain way because of the way the show ended. There was no way the editors could not have dealt with it and just ignored it. There would have been a whole other type of uproar from the fans. That just wasn't an option for them, as far as I can see.

In my opinion T/T are more together in the books in spirit than they have been in a long time. I can be positive about that until the next book comes out. If it all goes to shit, then fine, I'll deal with it then. Right now all I can do is enjoy the book and speculate about the future, and tell the authors and the editors that I liked what they have done with T/T so far.

[evcake]

Linda
I am skipping around in the thread here, but I caught a phrase from Rigil saying he thought the book was mediocre. Not sure which book, but yeah, I think both TGTMD and LFM could be tagged as mediocre, with some highlights. The prose in particular seemed flat to me, and there didn't seem to be a real ... attachment to the characters. That's JMHO, of course.

Rigil Kent
Both, actually. In either case, I was initially quite excited about the books because they were new ENT stuff that was official (and my reviews generally reflect that excitement), but as time passed and I attempted to reread the books, I found them not as good as initially thought. The prose was flat, IMO, and, especially in TGTMD, there were too many errors in regards to the actual canon of the show

No flat prose around here. That's why I hang out. Don't need no stinkin' books.

[Asso]

I would want to do some considerations.

Why to write TGTMD?
I think that the reply is: for the "relaunch" of ENT.

Then I do a second question: this is a good "relaunch"?
Reply: no (in my opinion).

We do not discuss that the story trying to maintain consistency with the abomination, even if that of for oneself it is a very serious fact (I think).
We have to ask: is the story beautiful? Is the story good? Are the characters quite described? Is the style pleasant?
Reply: no (again in my opinion).

So, why to discuss if Trip and T’Pol will have a future together in the relaunch novels?
This future, whatever future is, does not interest me.
This future belong an idiotic past (the abomination) and is nourished of nonsenses and of deliberate angsts.

I prefer the future of other authors.
They, I am certain, will give more beautiful and interesting things.

[Shakabutt]

This future, whatever future is, does not interest me.

This is the first book from the relaunch ,nobody knows what that future is for either of them .

Then I do a second question: this is a good "relaunch"?
Reply: no (in my opinion).

Ask yourself this question : is everybody a shipper ?
answer : no

Of course the fanfic here suits us and we like them ,they focuse on our favorite pair ,thats why is fanfic .
But there are fans who want to see other stuff than Trip and T'Pol ,the authors try to please everybody .

I prefer the future of other authors.
They, I am certain, will give more beautiful and interesting things.

That's the problem here ,there are no other authors ,who will write ENT books .
I am gratefull that we got even what they gave us in this book ,wich i think its a lot more on a emotional level than in the show.

[boushh]

I think for those that enjoyed the book and see potential for a good outcome do have stuff to discuss. They may not focus on T/T as much as fanfic, but that is entirely understandable. I'm impressed they were focussed on as much as they were.

I will still enjoy fanfic, and I hope that people will continue to write all kinds of fanfic. If it's in your head.... write it. Someone will read it. I have room to enjoy the books too as long as they hold my interest, and right now they are.

[Reanok]

I enjoyed the book and how Trip & T'Pol's relationship was handled in the book. It was so much more than I hoped for and am looking forward to seeing what happens in future books with them having a Bond and she knows the truth I'd like to see how she handles the knowledge of what she finds out in the end of the book and it needs to be dealt with.

[CX]

CX, so you're implying that we are delusional and that our opinions disturb you, despite all the points that we make?

No, that isn't what I said, and I really wished you'd quite reading things like that into everything I say. I'm not out to get you, I'm not attacking you, I'm not implying anything, I'm not diserspecting you, I'm just stating my opinions and the reasonings beind them. It's really starting to wear very thin that I feel that I have to be on the defensive because of my opinions among people I usually tend to think of as friends or at least friendly.