Romulan war canon?

[Alelou]

I think you basically just have two conflicting stories there. Unless perhaps Spock's pon farr was unexpectedly early, thus the wedding had to be rushed. We can only guess and I'm willing to bet the Enterprise writers could only guess too.

I don't undertstand why the pon farr/wedding mind meld is assumed. It couldn't have been in T'Pol's time, with mind melds considered so icky. So where in canon did that come from? Have I forgotten my TOS?

[CX]

Actually it was unexpectedly too late, and it was established in Amok Time. He was in his thirties, so he said that he thought his human half had spared him from having to suffer the blood fever. T'Pring had also obviously grown tired of waiting...

[Aquarius]

I don't undertstand why the pon farr/wedding mind meld is assumed. It couldn't have been in T'Pol's time, with mind melds considered so icky. So where in canon did that come from? Have I forgotten my TOS?

No, that part wasn't canon, but fan lore kinda took it and ran. LOTS of stories with that recurring theme--I even remember a Sarek and Amanda zine with something like that but that was back in the Stone Age (the late 80s) and damned if I can remember who wrote it or what it was called--and I remember something about a bonding ceremony in one of the profic novels (Vulcan Academy Murders, maybe?), though I don't recall a pon farr being involved there. Hmmm, that might be worth re-reading...

And yeah, it's a given that Spock's pon farr was a little crunked due to the human side of his gene pool, but if a pon farr is not required to have a wedding, then in theory he and T'Pring could've gotten married at any old time, right?

Anyhoo, in Spock's time, aside from the invasion of privacy aspect, there was really no indication that mind melds had ever been regarded as "icky." A hundred years seems so short a time for such a change of attitude, especially for beings that are so long-lived. You'd think there'd be a lot of oldsters hanging around dragging their heels on that kind of change or something. *shrug*

[Alelou]

Ah, yes, CX is right. Which means presumably that Spock was a reluctant groom?

And brings us back to just plain old conflicting story lines.

I am not a fan of mind melds in our favorite couples, or conversational bonds. Talk about taking all the mystery out of life. It's that reach from one consciousness to another -- always fraught with potential misunderstandings -- that really interests me. There's a kind of heroism in that, a continuing leap of faith, which just isn't there anymore if you know everything about the other person.

[Asso]

I am not a fan of mind melds in our favorite couples, or conversational bonds. Talk about taking all the mystery out of life. It's that reach from one consciousness to another -- always fraught with potential misunderstandings -- that really interests me. There's a kind of heroism in that, a continuing leap of faith, which just isn't there anymore if you know everything about the other person.

Yes. There's another kind of bond, which is able to join two persons. It spurts almost like it has an its own volition, but it has to be maintained alive, with a daily and conscious effort.

[Aquarius]

Ah, yes, CX is right. Which means presumably that Spock was a reluctant groom?

And brings us back to just plain old conflicting story lines.

I am not a fan of mind melds in our favorite couples, or conversational bonds. Talk about taking all the mystery out of life. It's that reach from one consciousness to another -- always fraught with potential misunderstandings -- that really interests me. There's a kind of heroism in that, a continuing leap of faith, which just isn't there anymore if you know everything about the other person.

Well, for dramatic purposes it is kind of boring for a character to know what's on his or her partner's mind at all times, isn't it? Stories like that tend to get a little spoon-feedy, if you know what I mean. If we were talking about real people, I'm sure such a relationship would be very dull, unless the couple in question was really screwed up and codependent. Couples--even fictitious ones--need a certain level of independence from each other, otherwise they'd never be able to surprise each other--or the readers; they'd have nothing to talk about.

Instances where I've felt the bond was written well usually also place a high value on each partner's privacy, so while maybe the occasional telepathic conversation occurs, we're not given the impression that they're constantly in each other's head's nattering away all the time. Personally, I've imagined the marital bond being more of a constant awareness of the other person's presence, a more passive thing where a partner picks up what his or her mate is broadcasting but doesn't actively go digging around for stuff in the other person's head. I never imagined too much in the way of "conversations" per se, but maybe more like simple messages in heightened emotional states, like "Run!" or "Duck!" in a moment of danger, etc.

[CX]

Ah, yes, CX is right. Which means presumably that Spock was a reluctant groom?

I don't think he was ever really interested in marrying T'Pring until he basically needed her to deal with his pon farr, and I'm pretty sure the marriage ceremony was just so they could make it official before they went and jumped into bed. Afterwards he said he had no interest in marrying her either, and since his blood fever was apparently lifted because he thought he'd killed Kirk, he no longer needed to get laid and had no further reason to marry T'Pring, which is why he let her go.

[Alelou]

I find myself thinking you could almost interpret that as the ultimate K/S slash episode.

Not how I viewed it the first 20 times around, of course.

[Asso]

A fact is interesting.
Spock is son Of a Human woman and of a Vulcan man. And he appears as a Vulcan and shows the genetic characters of the Vulcans.
Why?
In my mind it's strange.
I think that, in the beginning, Spock was meant to be simply a Vulcan.
Then, an idea made its road in the writers: probably would have been very intriguing if Spock was a hybrid.
So, there's his mother, a Human female.
But - I repeat - why he has to be so Vulcan? And why - please, hear me - his human parent had to be the mother??
I have some ideas about all that, but I would like to hear what you think, here.
BTW, I think that something could be said also about T'Pol, with regard to this matter.

[michelle]

i cant speculate on if they decided to make him half human later on or not but i think they decided to make his mother human becuase it was simply a sign of the times TOS was filmed that they didn't really feel comfortable having a women dictating how and where a child was brought up, and for spock to have turned out the way he did it would truelly mean that the vulcan female was very much dictating family life, maybe in the 1960ies that wasn't an acceptable family dynamic.

Also, they maybe sticking to some previous canonised idea because it's said in TOS that vulcan men treat their women strangly by nurse chapel and you get a feeling its not in a good way, but it's not very consistent becuase you get T'Pau as leader of the clan so it does seem the sexes are equals but then you have their marriage customs where the males just release the women, but the women have very little choise in escaping marriage and the whole walking behind a couple paces thing.

Why Spock is quite so vulcan?
Well my theory is that Sarek really loved Amanda and probably would have been fine with Spock not being 100% controlled and embracing some of his human side but his family and others around him may have given him a bit of a hard time for marrying a human, maybe on his back a bit for the shambles that was his first son, and Sarek decideing, that Spock would have a hard time trying to assimilate into vulcan society if he was too emotional, perhpas seen as weak by his family and peers and Sarek wanted to make sure his son was looked apon as an equal and that having human blood didn't make him any less capable than a full blooded vulcan.

And after deciding they were going to live on Vulcan, and Sarek's plans on havnig Spock follow in his foot steps, i can imagine that Amanda would have wanted her son to be as much a part of vulcan society as possible if it meant her son would be as content even if it means he would have to give up his human side.

I think Sarek decides early on that Spock can't afford to have the freedoms most young vulcans may enjoy growing up as any slip would be seen as his son failing in the eyes of Vulcan. And so he pushes him just that touch harder than the average Vulcan, to prove himself. It's obviously flawed thinking, as it back fires, Spock can't truelly find peace for always denying half of who he is, and begins to resent Sarek believing that he can never do anything well enough and runs off to Starfleet and Sarek and Spock never truelly reconsile their relationship.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Why was Spock so Vulcan?

I think he was overcompensating for the fact that he was just a half-Vulcan that grew up on Vulcan, surrounded by other full-blooded Vulcans.

[Asso]

No. In my mind this isn't the true question.
It's: Why a half-Vulcan--half Human has to be Vulcan? In his appearance and in his behaviour?
That doesn't make sense.
HE IS HALF.
In all that, I feel something forced.

[Alelou]

Maybe Vulcan traits are dominant. And his mother was a brunette...

[Aquarius]

Why was Spock so Vulcan?

I think he was overcompensating for the fact that he was just a half-Vulcan that grew up on Vulcan, surrounded by other full-blooded Vulcans.

That's certainly the impression we're given, especially in "Journey to Babel." It seems that Spock has spent his entire life seeking his father's approval, and, though this would never be admitted, never quite being good enough...which is a reasonable motivation for him to give ol' Dad the finger and join Starfleet instead of going to the Vulcan Science Academy.

[Asso]

Maybe Vulcan traits are dominant. And his mother was a brunette...