Funny pics

[Aquarius]

For what it's worth, here is my review of Unexpected.

I really ought to go read those reviews without waiting until you point to them. I agree with it on almost all points, especially about how wonderful the alien-ness was. But I didn't really mind the joke of the pregnancy. I took this as a comic episode -- and after all it started with Archer floating in the shower and falling on his butt. Star Trek has a long tradition of throwing the odd comic episodes in. (Aquisition is another one that comes to mind.) Played seriously, this plot could indeed have been arguably much more authentic and deep (or at least horrrifying) but inevitably also much more divisive, as you say. And looking at it as a comedy is really the only way you CAN forgive the incredibly stupid Klingon ending. It's like a Shakespeare comedy -- everybody ends up marrying somebody. It's not meant to be realistic, just happy. It's comedy. And comedy can give us license to go into nervous-making areas that are otherwise way out of bounds.

In regards to "Unexpected," I can't call that rape. I don't even see any intent to take advantage of Trip, as cited in the sober guy taking advantage of a drunk girl scenario. (Besides, I believe that while alcohol removes inhibitions, it does NOT put thoughts into your head, and a lot of people blame being drunk for things so as to avoid responsibility and accountability, but that's a whole 'nother issue.) Watching this episode, she seemed unaware of the possible consequences. She was surprised. She may have been guilty of being naive in terms of involving a human in that situation, but rape? I'm not thinking so.

[CX]

That's what they call it though when you have sex with someone without their knowledge. And impregnating someone through rape has an even worse social stigma to it. So again, I'd ask how the fans would have reacted had it been Hoshi, as the other naive explorer who also just happened to be a woman. Hell, you could even keep the alien a woman and the "innocent" pebbles. What are your thoughts in that case?

[CX]

And just to add to the insanity, something from Something Awful's Photoshop Phriday:

[Alelou]

Okay, say it's Hoshi. Well, that can't be funny, because she's not a big strapping hunk of man but a woman, who can get pregnant. Also, Hoshi at this point in the series was a scared little girl. So this would have had to be "Alien." The disruptions at the beginning would be more life-threatening. There's no way Archer could have sent Hoshi over by herself, so you probably would have needed someone else to go with her -- someone else who could also be victimized or killed. The music would be scary and Hoshi would be freaking. Instead of light flirting in that pebbles scene you'd end up with something like hypnotism at best, and instead of pebbles I'm thinking proboscis. Given the evil intent of the wasp aliens, they'd probably be hoping to do it to the whole crew, so you'd have a threat to the whole ship. They'd end up having to fight and probably kill the evil wasp aliens. Assuming Hoshi herself didn't go totally insane in the process of this, you'd then have a very hard time not addressing the topic of abortion. Ultimately Hoshi might end up overcoming the trauma but damn, what a depressing encounter with aliens at this point in the series.

They might have an easier time playing it comedically with T'Pol. Then you could have subdued hot lesbian flirting in a scene guys would play over and over. Trip could tease T'Pol mercilessly as she falls victim to weird alien pregnancy hormones. She'd be embarrassed as hell. You'd still have a very hard time avoiding the abortion topic. Given how T'Pol had been played to that point in the season, it would probably be most interesting if the experience ultimately warmed her up a little in a maternal kind of way. But of course, some people would think it's just appalling that they played this for laughs, and point out that it's just one more example of taking a pretty woman and making her the victim of rape, and insist that there's nothing funny about it and it's just another symptom of rampant Hollywood voyeurism and misogyny.

So if they were gonna do a story like this at all, Trip was definitely their best bet.

[justTripn]

I've had this arguement before, but to repeat, the alien was unaware this could happen as a result of their fooling around. As for the alien version of fooling around. Trip was totally into it. He was aware there was a romantic aspect to it. It's kind of like they were kissing and he got pregnant. You don't have to warn someone: "wait, are you aware that kissing is a sexual activity? OK, then, we'll proceed."

As for the male pregnancy played for laughs, yes, I've seen a very touching Arnold Swarzenneger movie. That was a great movie by the way. Not just comic. I remember it as a "everyone learns a heartwarming lesson" type movie. It was about males suddently understanding the female experience, the good and bad parts of pregnancy.

Also, getting accidentally pregnant is not a complete tragedy if you value the baby that results from the accident, which everyone in "Unexpected" seemed to do. That is a common enouph story line. Someone gets accidentally pregnant, they feel bad at first, but ultimately can't imagine their lives without that child. Then you have a story like Alelou's "Commander Tucker has a Baby," which is a work of genius! CX and Kevin might even approve. Go check it out.

[CX]

Still smells like a double-standard to me. And it's still rape. What makes it rape is that Trip consented to play a game, not to have sex, and she lied by telling him that it was just a game. He might have let himself get taken along for the ride as far as the kissing and that, but usually that isn't something that can result in either person from getting pregnant. What made it worse is that it was played for laughs, with all of his friends making fun of him. If I had been him, there would have been some bridges burned beyond repair. I honestly don't get how some of you can pass it off by saying "oh, she didn't know he'd get pregnant." She still lied and took advantage of his lack of knowledge of their culture. And saying he was into it for everything before that almost sounds like "he was asking for it." to me.

[Alelou]

I think in order for her to be lying to him, she'd have to know for certain that it isn't in any way a part of his culture. How is she to know he doesn't have a clue, especially since she doesn't seem to think it was possible herself? Hell, there are girls who get pregnant just fooling around with a guy without penetration. Yes, it happens. Does this mean whatever kid ends up as a daddy was a rapist for not knowing and warning the girl, "By the way, it's rare but there are cases where a little exterior genital to genital contact is all that's needed to get a guy's sperm on the way?"

But I don't think we'll ever agree on this one.

And no, CX definitely wouldn't appreciate Commander Tucker Has a Baby. I wouldn't recommend it to him at all. I do kind of explore that Archer was being insensitive about Trip's situation and that these aliens maybe have a bit of a sleazy vibe going, but the overall tone wouldn't suit CX at all.

[CX]

I think in order for her to be lying to him, she'd have to know for certain that it isn't in any way a part of his culture. How is she to know he doesn't have a clue, especially since she doesn't seem to think it was possible herself?

By asking instead of lying to him that it was just a game.

Hell, there are girls who get pregnant just fooling around with a guy without penetration. Yes, it happens. Does this mean whatever kid ends up as a daddy was a rapist for not knowing and warning the girl, "By the way, it's rare but there are cases where a little exterior genital to genital contact is all that's needed to get a guy's sperm on the way?"

Was she legally able to give consent and did she? If not then yes. But really for it to be comparable it would have to be someone who could actually be fooled into thinking a man ejaculating on her genitals (or close enough for it to work its way in) was a game in order for it to be comparable.

But I don't think we'll ever agree on this one.

Most ENT fans don't agree with me on most things I find, but this is one of those things that pretty much just floors me.

And no, CX definitely wouldn't appreciate Commander Tucker Has a Baby. I wouldn't recommend it to him at all. I do kind of explore that Archer was being insensitive about Trip's situation and that these aliens maybe have a bit of a sleazy vibe going, but the overall tone wouldn't suit CX at all.

If it's a comedy, probably not.

[evcake]

[panyasan]

Still smells like a double-standard to me. And it's still rape. What makes it rape is that Trip consented to play a game, not to have sex, and she lied by telling him that it was just a game. He might have let himself get taken along for the ride as far as the kissing and that, but usually that isn't something that can result in either person from getting pregnant. What made it worse is that it was played for laughs, with all of his friends making fun of him. If I had been him, there would have been some bridges burned beyond repair. I honestly don't get how some of you can pass it off by saying "oh, she didn't know he'd get pregnant." She still lied and took advantage of his lack of knowledge of their culture. And saying he was into it for everything before that almost sounds like "he was asking for it." to me.

Personally, I try to ignore this episode, most of all because it tried to make something funny, what wasn't funny at all, for the same reasons CX has giving. If I remember correctly, in the movie with Arnie, he did agree to get pregnant and know about the consequenses. That's totally different and changes to whole atmosphere of the movie. That's why the movie has a dorky, but warmhearted feeling, IMHO.
But maybe this discussion is not totally fitting for a funny pic-thread.

[evcake]

She said it was a game right? Who's to say she was lying? Maybe to the Xrillians ir is a game - maybe they "play" all day long, like bonobos. They also have a different way of assessing one another's state via dermal plating. Other specie, other ways. I'm inclined to give Ahlen the benefit of the doubt.
The Xrillian were also supposed to be "accustomed to alien visitors," which could cut two ways. Either it's never happened before, so Ahlen assumed it wouldn't happen this time, or she should have known better.

[CX]

"Rape: It's a game on Xrillia."

[Aquarius]

Hang on...

I don't ever recall having it established that this "game" IS what passes for sex for those people. I'll have to re-watch...but I don't happen to recall a conversation that went something like "Oh, sorry, Commander Tucker. I forgot to tell you...telepathic pebbles are the way my people reproduce. I only thought it could happen if I did it with my own people...wait, what do you MEAN humans have intercourse???"

I saw this episode first-run way-back-when, and I've seen it like three or four times since joining this forum. Not once did I get the impression that the incident was anything more than an accident.

And no, I wouldn't call it rape, either, if it had been Hoshi or T'Pol accidentally impregnated by an alien through a means other than intercourse, if said means wasn't established to be what passed for reproduction for that alien's race. An unfortunate accident, yes. Something noteworthy that both sides should include in their records about the other, so nobody else accidentally ends up knocked up, of course. But rape? Hardly.

I WILL agree that there may be a double-standard here, but from where I sit, it's that Trip neither blew his groceries every morning around breakfast time, nor had to pee every ten minutes, nor complained frequently that his arm nipples were tender and swollen. If they were gonna do Mr. Mom on steroids, then they shoulda went ALL the way.

ETA: I think to make a case for rape, you're missing intent here. Rape isn't about sex, it's about violence and control. Even statutory rape, where both parties may be "consenting" but it's still illegal for whatever reason (under age, diminished mental capacity, etc.), there's still an underlying control motive there, or at least a diseased thought process. I don't see any evidence that Alien Babe was trying to force Trip into anything, or control him, or had a diseased thought process that made concealing her true motives behind the telepathic pebbles a good idea.

[Aquarius]

And just to add to the insanity, something from Something Awful's Photoshop Phriday:

Now THAT'S funny!!

[TPoptarts]

Hey anyone remember the TNG episode that Troi got pregnant from that alien light thing that went into her bed when she was sleeping...