Introducing the Newest Member of My Family!

[Elessar]

she really really is.


What happened to Nourhan? Y'sell her or something?

I renamed Nourhan to Natalia. The actual Nourhan and I don't really speak anymore so it was kinda weird

She's got a cool namesake now, anyway. Natalia from Goldeneye!!

There is a saying about the pistol Makarov run in a strait line and you will not get hit. The predecessor TT is a much more dangerous weapon and is banned in my country because it can easily penetrate regular body armor and the ammo has a high danger of ricochet. I have seen the results in a body armor(with steel plate insert) that can stop the 7.62x25mm versus the 9x18mm of the PM. The PM round left a little small dent but the TT round deformed almost the whole steel plate.

, really? All the American stuff I can find about the Makarov say it's pretty accurate - but accuracy and power are both heavily dependent on the specific kind of ammo you're using. Here in the States, they manufacture brand new personal defense ammo that's much more accurate and powerful than that old Czech and Soviet crap the military would have been using.

As far as the 7.62x25 Tokarev, it was a magnum cartridge, like a .38 special +P or .357 magnum in the US, so that's probably why military issue lead core ball ammo would penetrate body armor. Then again, a lot of people I know might say, "Yeah.... it'd penetrate Soviet body armor", with a snark . But I don't know for sure if they sell that stuff here, anyway. I know that Tokarev pistols are all over the place in the C&R market. I just think they're ugly , so I don't think I'd get one. My friend actually wants one, though.

Here's the thing about that old Soviet or Czech ammo... if it's hardcore body armor penetrating stuff, I can guarantee you that the Gun Powers that be in the U.S. have either tried to get it here, or have gotten it here. There are a lot of loopholes through which we can have foreign stuff imported, including armor piercing 7.62x39mm Chinese manufactured AK ammo. It's possible I could get it, but I don't know.

Another kind of ammo in the states is considered 'armor piercing' - the 5.7x28mm. That's a big long story I don't want to get into, but originally it was designed to penetrate body armor, because it was designed to be a standard issue sidearm for NATO pilots who got shot down in the Balkans, so they can survive better with just a pistol. Once the pistol hit the US civilian market, they started banning all of the milspec AP ammo, so now the 5.7 ammo you can buy in the States is nerfed in comparison. However, if you ever see a 5.7 bullet, it looks like a chopped down 5.56mm M16 round.

Then again, in a society where big game hunting is as common as it is in the United States - the discussion of delineating armor piercing versus non-AP is retarded anyway, because a hundred different magnum rifle cartridges designed to take down a 800 lb Moose will also punch through the best police grade body armor. There's just no way around that.

[enterprikayak]

[all seriously] Did she mind?

(The gun, I mean.)

[Elessar]

[all seriously] Did she mind?

(The gun, I mean.)

Oh, no. It was unrelated, she just went back home to Kuwait.

[Navigator]

All the American stuff I can find about the Makarov say it's pretty accurate - but accuracy and power are both heavily dependent on the specific kind of ammo you're using. Here in the States, they manufacture brand new personal defense ammo that's much more accurate and powerful than that old Czech and Soviet crap the military would have been using.

As far as the 7.62x25 Tokarev, it was a magnum cartridge, like a .38 special +P or .357 magnum in the US, so that's probably why military issue lead core ball ammo would penetrate body armor. Then again, a lot of people I know might say, "Yeah.... it'd penetrate Soviet body armor", with a snark . But I don't know for sure if they sell that stuff here, anyway. I know that Tokarev pistols are all over the place in the C&R market. I just think they're ugly , so I don't think I'd get one. My friend actually wants one, though.

It's not the round or the accuracy of the pistol itself. It's the godawful trigger pull, especially in double action. You get a trigger finger that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger's biceps or tendonitis really quickly. How the pull on the Czech gun? When you get familiar with it, if the pull is too heavy for you, get a spare hammer spring and trim off one coil. Install it and then go shoot it. If it is reliable, it will be a lot easier to shoot double action.

7.62 Tokarev is the same cartridge as 7.63 Mauser as carried once upon a time by Sub-Altern Churchill. What you really need is a CZ-52 for the Czech version of the Tokarev round. Of course, you'll be deaf in a month.

There is no legal steel core pistol ammo in the US, whether designed as AP or not. There is also no legal 7.62X39 steel core ammo either. That was caused by Olympic Arms designing a 7.62X39 pistol - idiots.

[Elessar]

All the American stuff I can find about the Makarov say it's pretty accurate - but accuracy and power are both heavily dependent on the specific kind of ammo you're using. Here in the States, they manufacture brand new personal defense ammo that's much more accurate and powerful than that old Czech and Soviet crap the military would have been using.

As far as the 7.62x25 Tokarev, it was a magnum cartridge, like a .38 special +P or .357 magnum in the US, so that's probably why military issue lead core ball ammo would penetrate body armor. Then again, a lot of people I know might say, "Yeah.... it'd penetrate Soviet body armor", with a snark . But I don't know for sure if they sell that stuff here, anyway. I know that Tokarev pistols are all over the place in the C&R market. I just think they're ugly , so I don't think I'd get one. My friend actually wants one, though.

It's not the round or the accuracy of the pistol itself. It's the godawful trigger pull, especially in double action. You get a trigger finger that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger's biceps or tendonitis really quickly. How the pull on the Czech gun? When you get familiar with it, if the pull is too heavy for you, get a spare hammer spring and trim off one coil. Install it and then go shoot it. If it is reliable, it will be a lot easier to shoot double action.

7.62 Tokarev is the same cartridge as 7.63 Mauser as carried once upon a time by Sub-Altern Churchill. What you really need is a CZ-52 for the Czech version of the Tokarev round. Of course, you'll be deaf in a month.

There is no legal steel core pistol ammo in the US, whether designed as AP or not. There is also no legal 7.62X39 steel core ammo either. That was caused by Olympic Arms designing a 7.62X39 pistol - idiots.

Weird. What about stuff like this? Ya know, whenever stuff is banned, they can't outlaw the stuff that was already made, so this could be pre-ban manufacture or pre-ban import. I'm not sure.

5.56: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =123902438

7.62x39 - http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =123435297

7.62x51 - http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =123543100

Ya know I realized later I said something stupid. The 9x18 Mak is NOT more powerful than the 7.62x25 Tokarev. It's obviously a shorter, fatter, slower bullet. A little bigger, but obviously there's much more powder in the Tokarev cartridge. Probably significantly faster, without even looking at figures.

There is some interesting AP distinctions w/ the 5.7x28 ammo. Look into that stuff one day if you get a chance. Basically there are like 6 or 7 kinds of it, total: SS190 was made as a standard duty cartridge (it's AP), and it's actually illegal for sale to civilians, regulated by the BATFE. Then there's a bunch of civilian cartridges, including SS192 which was a JHP, but isn't made anymore. I think the SS195 replaced it. Today the "sporting cartridge" which arcs way more than the duty cartridge, is called SS197LF (for Lead-Free). HOWEVER, there is a new SS198 cartridge which is regulated by FN for sale only to LE and Military. It's not AP but it's like a high velocity JHP. It's very new, so nobody I could find on the internet had chronographed it next to SS190 yet to see how it compared, but it still wouldn't be the same b/c the SS190 has that tougher core. But it's not a legal issue. The company itself just won't sell it to you. If some Sheriff's dept picks up 5,000 rounds and 20 boxes just walk off the shelves onto Gunbroker, they can turn around and sell them to civilians perfectly legally, because they're not regulated. They just charge an arm and a freakin leg. I'm talking like $75 per box of 50 rounds. But that's nothing - enough people stockpiled the original SS190 service cartridge before it was made illegal, so pre-ban ammunition still exists on the market. It is seriously like $250-$500 PER BOX OF 50. It's insane.

[Entilzha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25