For one thing, I don't see it as a sin. There was nothing going on between T'Pol and Trip yet, just a bunch of feelings that neither side had really acknowledged or acted upon. Sorry, nobody cheated on anybody, nobody violated anyone's trust.
Second, as Escriba herself pointed out somewhere in all this discussion, canon T'Pol isn't "saint T'Pol"; she's screwed up a-plenty in her relationship with Trip, so she and Trip both are responsible for things not going quite right. She is not perfect, and I'm sure her logic about both Trip and Sim was pretty clouded.
In terms of the story, I actually kind of applauded T'Pol for finding the courage to take a chance.
DO YOU LIKE SIM?
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
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Asso
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Original sin. It cannot be forgiven. Body and love are not goods. Sorry, but I don't like this T'Pol.
She's antinomy of love.
She gives herself to a nipper whose mouth smells of milk. This is the worst T'Pol I can know.
I have my limits, I know,.
I adored, literally, the way Escriba wrote the story about how T'Pol acted when Enterprise was at its end, even if this story took the 'Abominatioin' as true, and that attests my admiration.
But you must understand: a story can be written in the best way, nevertheless also It's necessary that there's in it something you love.
I don't love this T'Pol, and not even this Trip.
And, surely, I don't love Sim.
I don't want to appear harsh, I love Escriba's writing. But, forgive me, a story can be written splendidly without being loved, if you don't love the assumption.
I don't want to be hard, but I want to be clear.
I'm waiting for Escriba's wonderful stories, but if the price has to be a heart pang, I prefer to be silent.
So, that's my last comment about that, because I admire her and I don't want to sound stupidly hard.
Only, I would like all of you to understand my ideas: it's not necessary to push angst accelerator so as to make the story powerful. Maybe that is due to the fact I'm male: it's real, I think, that females love tears, whereas males are stolid (now, please, don't fire at me!) .
In the end, I would prefer - absolutely - that Escriba's skill were used differently. (Well, Escriba, this a love declaration!)
But, believe me, if I was Trip, this time I wouldn't have forgiven T'Pol. And I don't think I would be the sole.
Forgive my English and forgive me.
She's antinomy of love.
She gives herself to a nipper whose mouth smells of milk. This is the worst T'Pol I can know.
I have my limits, I know,.
I adored, literally, the way Escriba wrote the story about how T'Pol acted when Enterprise was at its end, even if this story took the 'Abominatioin' as true, and that attests my admiration.
But you must understand: a story can be written in the best way, nevertheless also It's necessary that there's in it something you love.
I don't love this T'Pol, and not even this Trip.
And, surely, I don't love Sim.
I don't want to appear harsh, I love Escriba's writing. But, forgive me, a story can be written splendidly without being loved, if you don't love the assumption.
I don't want to be hard, but I want to be clear.
I'm waiting for Escriba's wonderful stories, but if the price has to be a heart pang, I prefer to be silent.
So, that's my last comment about that, because I admire her and I don't want to sound stupidly hard.
Only, I would like all of you to understand my ideas: it's not necessary to push angst accelerator so as to make the story powerful. Maybe that is due to the fact I'm male: it's real, I think, that females love tears, whereas males are stolid (now, please, don't fire at me!) .
In the end, I would prefer - absolutely - that Escriba's skill were used differently. (Well, Escriba, this a love declaration!)
But, believe me, if I was Trip, this time I wouldn't have forgiven T'Pol. And I don't think I would be the sole.
Forgive my English and forgive me.
Last edited by Asso on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Love can be cruel and un-pretty. No matter who you are.
Eian built my avatar! Banner by Misplaced!
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Escriba
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Oh, people praising me and I lost it. The story of my life... 
Thanks Aquarius, for your reviews and congratulations. I'm really blushing. But if I have to tell the truth, I didn't think this story would be so controversial. It was my idea of a little happy story. Go figures...
When I wrote it, I saw T'Pol's behavior as totally logical (non pun intended 
) And it was a way to avoid the RU "Harbinger" (because, you know, leading Trip on out of jealousy, having sex with him and then diminishing all the incident turns T'Pol's name into mud.) It's technically the same mistake with another outcome.
Anyway, Asso deserves a honourable mention for his loyalty. Even with "Beyond Death" (that I know it's his nightmare fuel) he always praises my technical skills and until now I haven't written a story that could satisfy him because they are... not his thing. I mean... Human Platitudes? Sad. A World Without Consequences? Depressing. Disruption? T'Pol is married to KOSS. But he defends me. Isn't he the sweetest person?
Writing Enterprise, you mean? No. My agenda is a mess right now. I thought I could work and study and have free time, but... Well, I'm a disaster organizing myself.
Thanks Aquarius, for your reviews and congratulations. I'm really blushing. But if I have to tell the truth, I didn't think this story would be so controversial. It was my idea of a little happy story. Go figures...
When I wrote it, I saw T'Pol's behavior as totally logical (non pun intended ) And it was a way to avoid the RU "Harbinger" (because, you know, leading Trip on out of jealousy, having sex with him and then diminishing all the incident turns T'Pol's name into mud.) It's technically the same mistake with another outcome. Anyway, Asso deserves a honourable mention for his loyalty. Even with "Beyond Death" (that I know it's his nightmare fuel
) he always praises my technical skills and until now I haven't written a story that could satisfy him because they are... not his thing. I mean... Human Platitudes? Sad. A World Without Consequences? Depressing. Disruption? T'Pol is married to KOSS. But he defends me. Isn't he the sweetest person?Alelou wrote:Speaking of Beyond Death, where the hell is Escriba these days? Writing, I hope.
Writing Enterprise, you mean? No. My agenda is a mess right now. I thought I could work and study and have free time, but... Well, I'm a disaster organizing myself.
"I mean... well, you know what people call men who wear wigs and gowns, don't you?"
"Yes, miss."
"You do?"
"Yes, miss. Lawyers, miss."
The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett
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Asso
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Escriba, I love you.
I know that one day you will melt me down with a sweet and tender "thing" for me, written with your marvellous skills.
I know that one day you will melt me down with a sweet and tender "thing" for me, written with your marvellous skills.
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
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Alelou
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Well, Escriba, I'm just glad to hear you didn't get washed away in some European hurricane or something. 
OMG, ANOTHER new chapter! NORTH STAR Chapter 28
.
Read opening chapters free at Amazon (US): The Awful Mess: A Love Story
Blog: Sheer Hubris Press / Twitter: @sheerhubris / Facebook: Sandra Hutchison
.
Read opening chapters free at Amazon (US): The Awful Mess: A Love Story
Blog: Sheer Hubris Press / Twitter: @sheerhubris / Facebook: Sandra Hutchison
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Linda
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
I read a few comments at the start of this thread, then skipped ahead, so my comment may be out of place. Also, I have not read Escriba's story yet, but I have printed it off and am carrying it around in my bag. I chose it as the first multi-part story that I have had time to read in a very long time.
I do like Sim and I feel he is a different person from Trip. He is sort of like an identical twin who was separated from his sibling at birth and has experienced some different things than Trip, even though he has some of the same memories. The ethical delema makes this a good episode. I like it when Trek poses interesting situations for the characters to deal with. This one is heartbreaking. I was angry with Archer in the scene where he confronts Sim in Trip's quarters. I don't like the way Archer handled the situation. After rewatching the scene, I was a little less critical of Archer, he was giving a very human and emotionally honest reaction, but very harsh to Sim. I think Archer could have handled that better. And I like the fan fics where his experience with Sim comes back to haunt him. It should. For the rest of Archer's life, it should haunt him.
Now I will go read Escriba's story.
I do like Sim and I feel he is a different person from Trip. He is sort of like an identical twin who was separated from his sibling at birth and has experienced some different things than Trip, even though he has some of the same memories. The ethical delema makes this a good episode. I like it when Trek poses interesting situations for the characters to deal with. This one is heartbreaking. I was angry with Archer in the scene where he confronts Sim in Trip's quarters. I don't like the way Archer handled the situation. After rewatching the scene, I was a little less critical of Archer, he was giving a very human and emotionally honest reaction, but very harsh to Sim. I think Archer could have handled that better. And I like the fan fics where his experience with Sim comes back to haunt him. It should. For the rest of Archer's life, it should haunt him.
Now I will go read Escriba's story.
Working on a major fan fic project. Two-thirds done. Hope to put it up in the not TOO distant future.
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Asso
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Linda wrote: ... and I feel he (Sim) is a different person from Trip....
Exactly. And exactly THIS is the point.
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four
And here is the beginning of the whole story.
But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.
Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
That may be your point, but it's not like Sim is a random stranger that doesn't mean anything to her. THAT would upset me. But so much of Sim IS the man she fell in love with (Trip), and seriously, I'm not the kind of fan who has to feel threatened somehow when it's indicated that a character in my fave pairing has had some kind of prior relationship--I mean, how many of us have dated/slept with/or even married someone else before the one we're with now?
Spoiler space, just in case...
Spoiler space, just in case...
SPOILER!!!:
I just feel sometimes when I read comments about people's stories that explore the notion that one character or the other might've had something going on at one time with someone other than T or T, that "other" gets a bit irrationally vilified, if you know what I mean. I'm not saying that that's what people are doing to Sim here, but frankly, even if he isn't trip, he does mean something to T'Pol--even if she isn't 100% sure just what that is--so I kind of don't see the big deal here. People have slept with others who've meant much less--sometimes in real life it doesn't have to be "Mr. Right," it just needs to be "Mr. Right NOW!!" T'Pol wouldn't do that, but I'm here to say that Sim is more meaningful than "Mr. Right NOW.'
Eian built my avatar! Banner by Misplaced!
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Linda
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Well, I wasn't even thinking of T'Pol's relationship with Trip when I was answering whether I thought he was a separate person. I just think he and Trip are two separate people, like brothers or even identical twin brothers who share a lot of common history but have some history that is is uniquely their own. They both have a relationship with T'Pol! I don't know if T'Pol sees them as separate, but I think she probably does. Anyone care to comment on how T'Pol sees Trip and Sim?
Working on a major fan fic project. Two-thirds done. Hope to put it up in the not TOO distant future.
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enterprikayak
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Mr. Right NOW!
GOOD ONE!!
Uploading a new Sim video to YouTube as I type. URL coming soon.
|||||||||enterpriseScrybe & enterpriseScrybe2 TrekVids||||||||| www.trekref.info|||||||||www.TriaxTpolitan.com|||||||||
"Let's be honest with ourselves: there's nothing easy about the life we've chosen. But we don't do it because it's easy, dammit!
We do it because the tits are big and the bat'leths are sharp and the ships are fast!"
Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
I was one of those people who didn't like the 'Sim-turn' in Beyond death. I liked the chapters before and after, the characters of Trip and T'pol and the slowly coming together- reaching out to each other-development of their relationship. Loved the ending too.
I didn't like the Sim-turn, not because I am against Trip or T'pol having a relationship with someone else. They were not involved at that point. No, the reason I didn't like the Sim-part was because of T'pols motivation.
I didn't like the Sim-turn, not because I am against Trip or T'pol having a relationship with someone else. They were not involved at that point. No, the reason I didn't like the Sim-part was because of T'pols motivation.
SPOILER!!!:
T'pols explanation for sleeping with Sim is that she wanted to sleep with Trip, but she didn't think that was possible. So during her sleeping with Sim, she pretends he is Trip, according to the story. I think she did care about Sim. Some people say she did out of pity. But anyway, I don't think pity or pretending sleeping with someone else is a good reason, I think it's a bad reason. Like I wrote as comment 'She did it for all the wrong reasons'
The wrong reasons were the underlining theme in the Sim-chapter. I am not jugding T'pol, I just pointing out that she did make a big mistake in my POV, which hurt her and Trip.
The wrong reasons were the underlining theme in the Sim-chapter. I am not jugding T'pol, I just pointing out that she did make a big mistake in my POV, which hurt her and Trip.
Love is a verb.
Chapter 18 of Word of Ice is up!
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8522099/18/World-of-Ice
The Naked Truth and other necessities of life
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12056258/1 ... es-of-life
Chapter 18 of Word of Ice is up!
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8522099/18/World-of-Ice
The Naked Truth and other necessities of life
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12056258/1 ... es-of-life
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Alelou
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
I think Escriba agreed with you, actually -- she wanted that to be a mistake on T'Pol's part. But I should probably let her speak for herself if she ever stops studying and stops in!
OMG, ANOTHER new chapter! NORTH STAR Chapter 28
.
Read opening chapters free at Amazon (US): The Awful Mess: A Love Story
Blog: Sheer Hubris Press / Twitter: @sheerhubris / Facebook: Sandra Hutchison
.Read opening chapters free at Amazon (US): The Awful Mess: A Love Story
Blog: Sheer Hubris Press / Twitter: @sheerhubris / Facebook: Sandra Hutchison
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enterprikayak
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Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Okay, here's my latest vid!
It is Similitude set to Priso's brother's song "Will Yesterday Fade Away"...it's the only CD in the car right now and so I noticed that it rather fit...while listening to it again and AGAIN and AGAIN
Anyway....I'm not sure if the volume's okay....pls let me know if it's too low.
I made it a bit of an A.U. here, as I have interspersed T'Pol remembering the dead Trip (on *the_abomination*). Since Trip's alive now (thx to the books), it is a grieving scene for no reason. So I hijacked it and made it look as if she's remembering Sim (who did die) and not Trip. So that's why and how.
Similitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tFdKg97ugg
Enjoy!
**edit: I have updated the linx to the new, louder version.
It is Similitude set to Priso's brother's song "Will Yesterday Fade Away"...it's the only CD in the car right now and so I noticed that it rather fit...while listening to it again and AGAIN and AGAIN
Anyway....I'm not sure if the volume's okay....pls let me know if it's too low.
I made it a bit of an A.U. here, as I have interspersed T'Pol remembering the dead Trip (on *the_abomination*). Since Trip's alive now (thx to the books), it is a grieving scene for no reason. So I hijacked it and made it look as if she's remembering Sim (who did die) and not Trip. So that's why and how.
Similitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tFdKg97ugg
Enjoy!
**edit: I have updated the linx to the new, louder version.
Last edited by enterprikayak on Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|||||||||enterpriseScrybe & enterpriseScrybe2 TrekVids||||||||| www.trekref.info|||||||||www.TriaxTpolitan.com|||||||||
"Let's be honest with ourselves: there's nothing easy about the life we've chosen. But we don't do it because it's easy, dammit!
We do it because the tits are big and the bat'leths are sharp and the ships are fast!"
Re: DO YOU LIKE SIM?
Your video was beautiful. It played great and your brother-in-law's song is wonderful. Apparently there is a great deal of talent in your family.
Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are. (Mason Cooley)
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