Would The Royal Family Exist in the 22nd Century?

[Elessar]

IMO, if the monarchy continued to exist it would be in some state that is the result of several decades of continuing reform and dilution of its actual political power, as has been the case in the last 200-1000 yrs of British history up to today.

Today the Royal family is still, as JT put it, "a ridiculously celebrity whose fabulous wealth is paid for by the taxpayers", and my question is, could some holdover or variant of that still exist in 2151... Could there still be a recognized Royal Family with Princes and Dukes and such?

[michelle]

I quite like the royals, they're a touch expensive but i think it's fun to have them, brings alot of tourists.

But I can't imagine that they would still be around after the ww3 of the trek universe. Unless we regressed into a more primitive political system before the Vulcans arrived.

[Linda]

LOL, the Vulcans as we create their culture in Star Trek have quite a few of their own "cultural artifacts" so why wouldn't Humans also hold on to some of their traditions and institutions, anachronistic as they are?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, the Royal Navy still existed in the 22nd century. That's were Malcolm's dad wanted his son to serve, not in Starfleet. So the answer is yes.

As a monarchist I also hope the Swedish Royal family will still exist by then.

[Aquarius]

I said yes, with the same reasoning as KTR. If the royals weren't still around, I didn't think they'd call it the Royal Navy any more.

[michelle]

i forgot about Reeds family and the navy. Although that particular thing really confused me. If the world was as devistated as it seemed in First Contact I really don't see how the navy survived but maybe it did, and why on earth would we bother to rebuild it or keep it going after an alien race landed on earth and there was world peace? Unless it became an oceanic science thing. Is it possible they just kept the "Royal" in the title for historical purposes? I dunno the whole navy thing makes no sense but i suppose it's canon so i'll have to live with it.

I really wonder what the royal family would be upto in a universe like in trek, maybe travelling around to planets like Vulcan and Andoria and doing stuff as they do now?

The Vulcan's I imagine have a family respected because of familial links to their great philosopher, i doubt it could be classed as a vulcan royal family though.

[Aquarius]

^Devastating things happen, but nations rebuild their military. And there would be those who believe that a nation/government/society/whatever should remain vigilant in terms of its defenses; they might see more of a need for their military in light of First Contact.

Yes, there was world peace, but as Robert Frost says in his poem "Fences," "good fences make good neighbors." The military can be a very good fence in terms of making sure your neighbors continue to behave themselves. That, and even though the Vulcans were nice (sort of), there may be otherworldly threats to have to defend against.

[JadziaKathryn]

Notwithstanding the antimonarchist faction that, so far as I understand, exists in Britain, I say yes. First of all, Royal Navy. That's a pretty big giveaway. Secondly, I think it's part of the British, or at least English, national identity which they'd probably want in an era of world government. At least in my interpretation of the Trekverse, having a monarch, even one with no practical power, reminds Brits that they're still a (nominally) sovereign country with their own traditions. And British culture generally has a greater reverence for tradition than American culture.

I'm also going with the idea that the Eugenics Wars and WWIII stopped some of the trends that we're experiencing today as far of devolution of power. This plays into ethnic nationalism within Britain... as Malcolm is British, not English, one has to assume that there is still Britain in the Trekverse and Scotland, Wales, and North Ireland are still politically and, in the main, culturally, united. Now, with the resurgence of ethnic nationalism today, one can't say for certain that will be the case in the 2150s. But, if you consider the devastation of two wars - which would likely serve as uniting factors - that could quash ethnic nationalism for a good long while, until rebuilding begins on a fairly global scale - and then human identity would likely coalesce around being human, i.e., not Vulcan...

(I'm writing a paper on the impact of decolonization on British culture, so national identity is on my mind.)

[michelle]

"And British culture generally has a greater reverence for tradition than American culture."

I have never actually seen this in my actual cuture, the minority Higher-middle class/upperclass maybe but the majority culture in britian of middle class/working class is not tradition bound in any way. I mean we like our cups a tea still but we also drink coffee and shed load of new stuff, just an example. I've lived in london and a small town outside Blackpool, and although the cultures are very different, there is no real desire for tradition. Maybe it's because the traditions are so ingrained i don't notice them.

I actually think that america has a bit of a bent for culture, building british cottages here and there, some of you guys have been know to wear kilts and a multitude of other cultural stuff you want to emulate in your own country, which is cool. Americans are very big on their roots which is a lovely thing, for example we have people of african decent but they don't choose to call themselves, African-British, just british but of african decent. I'm scottish-Irish-french-algerian, yet i call myself british, even english because, apart from my accent nothing traditional of any of thoes places is a part of my life, which i suppose is a little sad but i think my culture is mainly of looking forward rather than back.

The lvl of desolation i imagined in "First Contact" was rather extreme, i imagined camps like Cockrans scattered across the world, people just trying to reorganise with tiny little governments for each settlement, not travelling much outside their areas, not knowing what was going on in the world. so the navy is a massive leap for me and, like i said, i don't think tradition is enough in our culture for us to put so much resources on builting a fleet of ships with no real purpose. I really do like the idea of earth not having fences, whats the need when everyone on the planet is well fed and housed?

There is a risk from space, so i think the navy is a bit redundant, we would have gone the route of starfleet really, oh well, guess the british are stuck in their ways in Trek Uni. lol

[Aquarius]

The lvl of desolation i imagined in "First Contact" was rather extreme, i imagined camps like Cockrans scattered across the world, people just trying to reorganise with tiny little governments for each settlement, not travelling much outside their areas, not knowing what was going on in the world. so the navy is a massive leap for me and, like i said, i don't think tradition is enough in our culture for us to put so much resources on builting a fleet of ships with no real purpose. I really do like the idea of earth not having fences, whats the need when everyone on the planet is well fed and housed?

There is a risk from space, so i think the navy is a bit redundant, we would have gone the route of starfleet really, oh well, guess the british are stuck in their ways in Trek Uni. lol

Well, I imagine that another reason for the isolation of Cochrane's camp is because of what he was building. I'm sure he didn't even want the American government getting their hands on it, because who the hell knew what they'd do with it at that point. It's probably pretty lucky that the Vulcans showed up when they did, so nobody got any stupid ideas about turning the warp engine into a weapon and finishing the job--we had bigger issues to deal with now. So while the devastation was probably pretty widespread, especially among the nations that were considered "super powers" at the time, there were probably some areas that remained largely untouched.

It's been a long time since I've studied American history, and I don't know if I have the right words to articulate what I'm trying to describe here, so if this doesn't work, I'll ask my next door neighbor when I get home from work because he's a lot smarter about this stuff than I am...but I'm imagining the "world union" being something like the early formation of the United States: when we fought for our independence, it wasn't with the idea that we were going to be under one rule, just someone who wasn't the king. We began as an collection of independent sovereign states, free to govern themselves as they choose, who formed an agreement, an association of cooperation for the common good and defense of the individual states, and we then got a president to oversee that. This was a big issue later in the Civil War, when the Southern states wanted to assert their sovereignty and split off from the rest and do their own thing.

The system has changed quite a bit, and no one really sees each state as a separate "mini-country" any more...but I imagine that that's kind of what it was like when Planet Earth was first coming together: by Archer's time, you had a bunch of sovereign entities who wanted to cooperate and get along but still do things their own way, with their own governments, and militaries, etc. By Kirk's time, a hundred years have passed, the peace is older, and people view the world government as a single entity (as we view Washington, D.C. now) vs. an association of several small entities.

[michelle]

oh yeah, i agree, i don't like the idea of us just amalgamating into one culture, I prefer the idea that many countries retained some identity. Football is big in uk, i was disappointed Reed wasn't into it, i suppose it would feel like a bit of a stereo type but then so is a royal navy family tradition.

[Elessar]

oh yeah, i agree, i don't like the idea of us just amalgamating into one culture, I prefer the idea that many countries retained some identity. Football is big in uk, i was disappointed Reed wasn't into it, i suppose it would feel like a bit of a stereo type but then so is a royal navy family tradition.

That's kind of one of the directions I've always approached Trek from... I think it makes sense for globalization to continue to some asymptotically converging point but I don't think it would all become one and the whole world would adopt Western/American/NorthAmerican culture and values and political systems. At least, I hope that's not how it happens. It is for this reason that I prefer to think of the English monarchy sticking around, largely as part of the British holding onto their heritage.

Another possibility, however bleak, is that WW3 decimated so many cultures that what emerged was most strongly influenced by the cultures that survived... like in Firefly when the resulting culture and society that leaves Earth is heavily English and Chinese in origin.

[Aquarius]

oh yeah, i agree, i don't like the idea of us just amalgamating into one culture, I prefer the idea that many countries retained some identity. Football is big in uk, i was disappointed Reed wasn't into it, i suppose it would feel like a bit of a stereo type but then so is a royal navy family tradition.

That's kind of one of the directions I've always approached Trek from... I think it makes sense for globalization to continue to some asymptotically converging point but I don't think it would all become one and the whole world would adopt Western/American/NorthAmerican culture and values and political systems. At least, I hope that's not how it happens. It is for this reason that I prefer to think of the English monarchy sticking around, largely as part of the British holding onto their heritage.

Another possibility, however bleak, is that WW3 decimated so many cultures that what emerged was most strongly influenced by the cultures that survived... like in Firefly when the resulting culture and society that leaves Earth is heavily English and Chinese in origin.

It would seem, though, that the Federation itself has quite a bit of that Western influence, in that it appears to be a Democracy, complete with an elected president and everything (ST IV).

[JadziaKathryn]

Yes, but that's the Federation, not Earth government, so it's another kettle of fish.

[Aquarius]

Right but they had to get there somehow...other than American writers writing for an American audience, that is. Same for the World Government. As much as we like to think outside the box as fan writers, when it comes to humans canon will almost invariably show everything with an American/Western influence, regardless of what part of the world a character comes from.

It's interesting because throughout Star Trek, you can kind of see the U.S.'s place in the world by the way humans are depicted. Human most definitely = American. In Gene's original vision, the road to peace and cooperation was through the American Way. We were on top and we thought we had everything right. On Enterprise...can you say "Ugly Americans"? Yep, the show has always been a metaphor for what's going on in our country.