Harbinger, etc.

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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby WarpGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 3:39 am

Hey I didn't say I liked or agreed with it. I don't why do you think I use that nifty thing that translates T-A-T-V into this *the_abomination*. The point was I don't see how anyone here can be a true canon fanatic and say *the_abomination* doesn't count, because it technically does.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby anaM » Sat May 02, 2009 5:32 am

WarpGirl wrote:Hey I didn't say I liked or agreed with it. I don't why do you think I use that nifty thing that translates T-A-T-V into this *the_abomination*. The point was I don't see how anyone here can be a true canon fanatic and say *the_abomination* doesn't count, because it technically does.


Oh, it's simple :) :wink: It's made to look like canon, but it's not what it seems. It's just the front of a bigger story, don't forget Trip's wink. Now what this story is, one has to do a little research to find. It could be what the relaunch novels say... At least that is how I got over the shock of *the_abomination*...

Aikiweezie, thanks for mentioning that story, it was really good!

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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby WarpGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 5:52 am

I've never actually seen *the_abomination*. I'm just finishing up the first season. I don't intend on ever seeing *the_abomination*, actually. I put it with all of the other canon I find ridiculous, out of my mind.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aquarius » Sat May 02, 2009 11:16 am

WarpGirl wrote:Hey I didn't say I liked or agreed with it. I don't why do you think I use that nifty thing that translates T-A-T-V into this *the_abomination*. The point was I don't see how anyone here can be a true canon fanatic and say *the_abomination* doesn't count, because it technically does.


This is the way I look at it: it's canon for Riker. That episode was actually set in his here-and-now. The holographic recreation he was participating in, however, was based on 200-year-old events and therefore could've been full of errors and misinterpretations--one of those things where you never really know unless you were there. It could've even been a completely fictionalized account, like when you go see a movie that is tagged "Based On A True Story"--the core of the events follow reality to a point, but all kinds of things are changed for dramatic purposes, to make it more interesting to the viewer or to translate it better onto film/TV/hologram/whatever. So we don't really know what kind of "creative license" the creator of that holographic program took. The fact that everyone's so out of character could be "evidence" that the creators of the holographic program either didn't have their facts straight and were just guessing about a lot of stuff or that there was at least some embellishment going on despite the "facts", if one wished to believe that for the sake of being able to write fics where Trip didn't die and he and T'Pol get their "Happily Ever After" without having to write any kind of "fix" about how his death was faked/it was just a dream/it was really his evil twin/whatever.

So yeah, you're right, it's canon, but as far as "reality" goes, it has more to do with Riker's than it does TnT's. My feeling is, that was a TNG episode, not Enterprise, and what Riker saw in the 24th century has little to nothing to do with events I'm writing/imagining in the 22nd. My assumption is the authors/historians got it wrong, but that's Riker's problem, not TnT's.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby WarpGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 11:18 am

Why does everyone blame Riker? What did he do wrong? Poor guy.
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aquarius » Sat May 02, 2009 11:21 am

WarpGirl wrote:Why does everyone blame Riker? What did he do wrong? Poor guy.


Who blamed Riker?? Nobody that I can see...

From my own perspective (and this is in my post), I have blamed the historians or authors or whomever wrote the holograph program he was watching for either fictionalizing events or for getting their facts wrong. I'm not sure how that would be Riker's fault... :dunno:
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby WarpGirl » Sat May 02, 2009 11:26 am

Ooops I didn't mean it literally. It's very early in the morning here I just woke up. Don't mind me, I was in love with every man on TNG except Picard and Worf at some point between the ages of 3 and 10. Riker lasted the longest. :lol:
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aikiweezie » Sat May 02, 2009 12:16 pm

Aquarius wrote: So we don't really know what kind of "creative license" the creator of that holographic program took. The fact that everyone's so out of character could be "evidence" that the creators of the holographic program either didn't have their facts straight and were just guessing about a lot of stuff or that there was at least some embellishment going on despite the "facts", if one wished to believe that for the sake of being able to write fics where Trip didn't die and he and T'Pol get their "Happily Ever After" without having to write any kind of "fix" about how his death was faked/it was just a dream/it was really his evil twin/whatever.


I agree. And don't forget that if T & T continued their relationship (which was the intent from what I've read from Coto) they may have had to keep in tightly under wraps until the Terra Prime threat had passed. The writer of the holodeck program probably wouldn't have known that so many years later.

We've gotten way off track again.................

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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Asso » Sat May 02, 2009 12:47 pm

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:I think it was pretty clear that they did not continue with any physical relationship post-Harbinger. I also got the distinct impression that they didn't do much - if any - neuropressure either, despite what was said in the morning after scene.

The only period I can imagine them becoming somewhat intimate again (before Bound) is after they get back from the Expanse and the Alien Nazi adventure, but before Home. However, I doubt they had any sexual relations then.

I disagree. Remember Trip's words to T'Pol when she tells him he could go to Vulcan with her.
And remember her - and his - face, too.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aikiweezie » Sat May 02, 2009 1:06 pm

Asso wrote:I disagree. Remember Trip's words to T'Pol when she tells him he could go to Vulcan with her.
And remember her - and his - face, too.


Yes! And don't forget Trip's "What does your mother know about us?" line. Would someone actually say that about a one night stand? I don't think so!

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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby panyasan » Sat May 02, 2009 1:20 pm

Aikiweezie wrote:
Asso wrote:I disagree. Remember Trip's words to T'Pol when she tells him he could go to Vulcan with her.
And remember her - and his - face, too.


Yes! And don't forget Trip's "What does your mother know about us?" line. Would someone actually say that about a one night stand? I don't think so!

Mmmm... I agree that they had a relationship that was developing in something meaningfull as seen in Home - but there are no indications of NP or an physical relationship in the show.
In that case, if T'Pol had said something about their intimate (physical for Vulcans) being in the past right after Terra Prime (and this is taken out of context in *the_abomination*), she was right. Doesn't say anything about what happened to them after Terra Prime.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aikiweezie » Sat May 02, 2009 1:36 pm

panyasan wrote:there are no indications of NP or an physical relationship in the show.
If T'Pol had said something about their intimate (physical for Vulcans) being in the past right after Terra Prime (and this is taken out of context in *the_abomination*), she was right.


Someone (sorry - forgot who) on the boards wrote before that they have an original script for Home and T & T kiss right before her mother comes in to the garden. They cut that out for some reason, but - I think there's enough implied evidence that it was NOT a one time thing.

Why would Trip be SO devastated when things went south if it was just "opps, we made a mistake, let's be friends and just go on with life!"? He couldn't stand to be around her anymore - so much so that he left Enterprise. That's HUGE. It seems to me that their relationship was far deeper than either of them realized and that's why the bond pulled them back together.

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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby panyasan » Sat May 02, 2009 1:55 pm

Aikiweezie wrote:
panyasan wrote:there are no indications of NP or an physical relationship in the show.
If T'Pol had said something about their intimate (physical for Vulcans) being in the past right after Terra Prime (and this is taken out of context in *the_abomination*), she was right.


Someone (sorry - forgot who) on the boards wrote before that they have an original script for Home and T & T kiss right before her mother comes in to the garden. They cut that out for some reason, but - I think there's enough implied evidence that it was NOT a one time thing.

Why would Trip be SO devastated when things went south if it was just "opps, we made a mistake, let's be friends and just go on with life!"? He couldn't stand to be around her anymore - so much so that he left Enterprise. That's HUGE. It seems to me that their relationship was far deeper than either of them realized and that's why the bond pulled them back together.

I do agree with you that their relationship is far deeper than either of them realized until it was too late, but maybe they would have taken it slow on the physical side. It was cause for problems after Harbinger. Maybe they are dating, looking for ways to develop their relationship. It would also make T'Pol decision to marry Koss somewhat less - I don't know the right word - illogical?
Last edited by panyasan on Sat May 02, 2009 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Sat May 02, 2009 3:03 pm

Asso wrote:I disagree. Remember Trip's words to T'Pol when she tells him he could go to Vulcan with her.
And remember her - and his - face, too.

That in no way says to me that they were sleeping together at that point. I took it to mean that they were in the early dating phase. Maybe some kissing and perhaps even NP but nothing more. This was just after Storm Front and there wouldn't have been any time for them to take it any further. Had not Koss and Home happened they way it did, they would probably have gone down that path.

What happened after Bound is another question entirely.
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Re: Harbinger, etc.

Postby Aikiweezie » Sat May 02, 2009 3:14 pm

What's "NP?"


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