Harbinger, etc.

[WarpGirl]

Thank you Dinah!

[Asso]

I said it: It depends on Trip.
The next move is his. He has to make T'Pol be aware.
And I think he was capable of doing this.

[Aquarius]

I pretty much agree with Dinah here. And having been in that exact same situation (fella I loved was in danger of being lost to someone else) when I was young and inexperienced in life...yeah, I did some pretty drastic things to try to ensure the outcome went my way. I saw a threat and I panicked, just as T'Pol saw a threat and she panicked. Now that I'm almost 20 years older than that, I've acquired the wisdom to trust the universe to unfold the way it's supposed to.

T'Pol isn't a child here, but she lacks the experience in human relationship dynamics. That, and the Trellium D was undoubtedly lowering her inhibitions, allowing her to justify acting on her impulses when she otherwise would've talked herself out of it as a bad idea.

[WarpGirl]

Well in Vulcan terms she's very very young. And she has no clue about Vulcan relationships really, only vague knowledge of how they're supposed to work. How the heck is she supposed to handle a relationship with a human man? We all know they're not the easiest creatures to have relationships with when the circumstances are normal. Now throw in different species and drugs, she's got no clue what she's doing. But to be fair neither does Trip. That's why waiting is a good idea. At least they would have time to figure out what the want with each-other. All I'm saying is a little time would make things better in the long-run.

[Aquarius]

I'm not saying that they kept doing it all along. There might've been a couple of times after she "called it off,"...but once she decided to go clean, I'm sure her recovery involved celibacy, just as AA does here.

However, after E2, her "self" from the future has given her quite a bit of food for thought regarding Trip's place in her life, and it's indicated that further recovery may not be possible without his involvement. Does this mean that they jump back into the sack? Not necessarily...not right away any way.

Trip's question in "Home," about what her mother knows about them, is very telling, though. You usually don't ask something like that if you've only slept with someone once. At the very least, it indicates that this is where they are headed and that their relationship status is complicated. Whether they've been sleeping together or not, it's clear that she's brought him home to meet Mom because she's serious about him. And if they're that serous about each other, then I see no big deal if they are having sex. In fact, it sort of ups the ante for when Koss makes his move and blackmails her.

[WarpGirl]

Maybe I'm so opposed because my family is full of addicts and one unfortunate situation involved my addict Uncle, his addict wife, and his addict cousin... The whole situation with Trip and T'Pol has my heart saying "Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder, and the bond stronger."

[Aquarius]

Maybe I'm so opposed because my family is full of addicts and one unfortunate situation involved my addict Uncle, his addict wife, and his addict cousin... The whole situation with Trip and T'Pol has my heart saying "Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder, and the bond stronger."

I can understand that point of view. No one in my family is an addict (that I know of), but I've dealt with it in my share of friendships.

The thing is...Trip isn't a "wait until marriage" guy. We've seen evidence that he's had sex at least twice out of wedlock. He was engaged prior to his assignment on Enterprise, so I think it's safe to assume he slept with his fiancee, too.

He would wait for T'Pol as long as she needed to. Of that I'm sure. But unless she discloses to him information about her addiction, there's bound to be a good bit of frustration on Trip's part there because he's a red-blooded human male, and the word "tease" comes to mind if she'll only let things go so far before bringing them to a grinding halt. He's going to want to know what's behind her behavior, especially since sex is obviously not uncharted territory for them.

Intimacy is a big deal for Vulcans. I can see that as a case for going slow, but she can't exactly take back the fact that she already slept with him. When you're crazy about someone, intimacy of the flesh can definitely make you feel closer to someone, with or without the marriage certificate.

[WarpGirl]

He was engaged? To who Natalie? If that's the case why does Archer refer to her as Natalie from Pensacola? Oh I know he's had sex, I think he's an idiot for it. But does a box of rocks count?

[Aquarius]

Oh I know he's had sex, I think he's an idiot for it. But does a box of rocks count?

Well, I was referring to the fact he had sex with T'Pol, and with Kaitaama in "Precious Cargo." Yeah, The latter was a fade-to-black, but it's pretty obvious.

[Aikiweezie]

Dinah, I found your explanation very insightfull. Thank you.

Me, too, Dinah!

[panyasan]

The thing is...Trip isn't a "wait until marriage" guy. (..)
He would wait for T'Pol as long as she needed to. Of that I'm sure. But unless she discloses to him information about her addiction, there's bound to be a good bit of frustration on Trip's part there because he's a red-blooded human male, and the word "tease" comes to mind if she'll only let things go so far before bringing them to a grinding halt. He's going to want to know what's behind her behavior, especially since sex is obviously not uncharted territory for them.

Intimacy is a big deal for Vulcans. I can see that as a case for going slow, but she can't exactly take back the fact that she already slept with him.

I had the same thought in the back of my mind, when I wrote about TnT not having "intimate relationships" after Harbinger. I still see evidence of them going slow (also because Trip is being very patient with T'Pol in season 4 and the suggestion that they started all over again), but it would be "complicated" (sorry could found another word), because of their past history. It's also complicated to put my thoughts in words, so hopefully my point comes across.

[Aquarius]

Re: the engagement thing--I thought I read somewhere that he was, but now in light of my being unable to find documentation to support it, I think someone's fanon blurred into canon in my head. Not the first time it's happened; I hadn't seen all the episodes yet when I started reading things here, so it was hard not to take things literally sometimes, especially if they were credibly presented by skilled authors.

[panyasan]

There wasn't a mentioning about Trip being engaged to Nathalie, only that she wrote him a "Dear Trip" letter. I have trouble too sometimes to seperate "canon" from "fanon".

[Aquarius]

Yeah, I remember that, but I also thought I saw somewhere that one of his "three serious relationships that went bust" was an engagement. Like I said, evidently I'm wrong, or I did read it but it was in someone's fic.

[panyasan]

I can't remember that it was said on the show, but I do remember one review (from KTR?) - no fic - that stated that Trip had three serious relationships before T'Pol. No mentioning of engagement.
So maybe the 3 relationships are canon? KTR?