Rajin & Similitude

[Asso]

There's a famous sentence in "The Betrothed", by Alessandro Manzoni.
It's "Don Abbondio", the priest who refuses to marry Lucia and Renzo because of his fear, who utters this sentence.
"Courage... a man can't give himself courage."
But this phrase doesn't resound good, in the book's context.
It doesn't justify his behaviour, in any way.
It rather resounds as a condemnation, without appeal.

[Aquarius]

Well, people cave in to social pressure all the time. T'Pol is always suffering consequences for doing things her own way. She wanted to pursue her career and help us poor Humans, and it cost her a marriage--something she obviously cared about, then Trip got her to thinking about which one was more important to her. Career won, Koss's family is furious.

Then she fell under the spell of a creepy yet charismatic Vulcan who didn't live his life by the rest of her society's codes. A bit of a maverick herself (as we're coming to learn--sneaking out at night to listen to jazz, anyone?) she starts skipping meditations and tries mind melds...and discovers the hard way that he's a predator. Metaphorically it was date rape.

Worse of all, this "date rape" left her with a neurological STD when she learns she has Panar syndrome. As if that isn't enough, she's sure to be stigmatized if any other Vulcans find out because only those who engage in "deviant behavior" contract it--much like the narrow-minded view of AIDS in the early 80s. And apparently "I was forced" isn't a defense. She's screwed no matter what she does.

She has a whole bunch of people mad at her for helping to the truth behind a secret espionage installation in a sacred monastery. Never mind that they were wrong for having it there in the first place, let alone lying about it...so instead of eating it and admitting they were wrong, they try to screw with her in every way possible in the weeks that follow. And something tells me that Koss's family may have had a hand in painting a target on her back, because really, as far as they knew, walking away from the wedding was the first indication anyone had that T'Pol wasn't behaving herself any more.

And that just scratches the surface of some of the earlier unpopular choices T'Pol has made, from her people's point of view. As we all know, there is more to come.

So point being, it's entirely possible that any Vulcan would look at T'Pol's life and all the crap she's had to put up with for having courage to do what's right for her, and say "screw that, it isn't worth it, I'll fall back into line." Sure, we know that's wrong, but people cave to those kinds of pressures all the time, in order to stay under the radar and not have their status quo disrupted. So I can absolutely understand Koss seeing all the crap T'Pol has dealt with and deciding to go along with the program instead of standing up for what's right...but I certainly don't respect him.

[Asso]

...So I can absolutely understand Koss seeing all the crap T'Pol has dealt with and deciding to go along with the program instead of standing up for what's right...but I certainly don't respect him.

I did always say that women are more understanding than men. And always men take advantage of them.
Mhhh... Maybe Koss too, of T'Pol?

[Aikiweezie]

The expressions on T'Les's face and her body language certainly suggested to me that she was rethinking who'd make the better son-in-law: this smelly Human with the great shoulders who sacrificed his own happiness in order to put her daughter's needs ahead of his own, or the meathead she was about to tie the knot with because he's blackmailing her?

Poor Koss. I call him a "knob" and now Aquarius pegs him a "meathead!" The guy rubs me the wrong way, too. Why he would INSIST on marrying her is beyond me. Unless he appreciate her beauty. (I just LOVE her clothes in "Home." They seem very un-Vulcan to me. Perhaps she's wearing hot pink to reinerate how different she is from other Vulcans at this point, I dunno, but I want her clothes.

I would guess that T'Pol opted NOT to tell him about the P'Nar's. She hinted at it, but then didn't pursue that after Koss made the offer of helping her mother out.

I think it was creepy in "The Forge" when he stroked her cheek like that. Ick.

I looked up the actor who played Koss and he's a nice looking guy. Must be the hair. I don't even think Johnny Depp would look good that hair.

[Alelou]

Linda and I have both written stories for Koss. You gotta walk a mile in a guy's shoes ... or write a story for him ... then you might start to sympathize a little more. Not a whole lot, necessarily, but a little more. I think if we were Vulcans, we'd almost all consider Koss the one more wronged. Of course, if we were all Vulcans, we also wouldn't be here wasting time on this silly TV show.

I wasn't going to do this anymore myself... I was TRYING to be logical ... what can I say, the movie drew me back into fandom for at least a little while...also I still don't find myself wanting to paint the damned house.

[Linda]

What Alelou said (about Koss), thank you, Alelou!

[Aquarius]

Poor Koss. I call him a "knob" and now Aquarius pegs him a "meathead!"

I just call it like I see it!!

Thing is...I don't really want to sympathize with him. If I were a Vulcan, yeah, I'd probably look at him and his situation and give him a sympathetic, "Dude, that sucks!" in Vulcan.

But I'm not a Vulcan. As a human woman, I just have more sympathy for T'Pol and her struggles to try to do the right thing and be happy...and not end up some other dude's property by marriage contract. In a lot of ways she's such a metaphor for feminism in our own society, especially what I remember of it in the 70s...at least that's a relationship I see as I've watched some of the things she's done. Yeah, in a lot of ways, I'm perfectly happy keeping my sympathies with T'Pol.

[Asso]

Oh yes.
I think you're simply more "diplomatic" than me, Aquarius.

[Linda]

I like to see things from all the angles: T'Pol's viewpoint, Koss's viewpoint, Trip's viewpoint, Vulcan culture, human culture, Andorian culture... Complexity makes it more interesting to me. I don't like absolutes like saying a character is 100 percent wicked. Just because I promote Koss's viewpoint does not mean I am anti-feminist or anything. Hey, I was part of the feminest movement as a young woman and I remember the days when I had to have a B average in high school to get into certain universities when a male had only to have a C average to get into the same school. They wouldn' dare do that today in a state university like they did in the 1960's! People get so passionate about a character's badness that they get blinded to what is good in them. Also I get caught in different ways of seeing things from different cultures right in my own family, so that seeps into my fan fiction in these made up cultures. I can't really say the Vulcans are anti-feminist or that they are feminist just because they bond kids at age seven because they have the telepathy issue which complicates their culture. Science fiction is about speculation, so I speculate, LOL.

[Asso]

ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

[Aquarius]

I like to see things from all the angles: T'Pol's viewpoint, Koss's viewpoint, Trip's viewpoint, Vulcan culture, human culture, Andorian culture... Complexity makes it more interesting to me. I don't like absolutes like saying a character is 100 percent wicked. Just because I promote Koss's viewpoint does not mean I am anti-feminist or anything. Hey, I was part of the feminest movement as a young woman and I remember the days when I had to have a B average in high school to get into certain universities when a male had only to have a C average to get into the same school. They wouldn' dare do that today in a state university like they did in the 1960's! People get so passionate about a character's badness that they get blinded to what is good in them. Also I get caught in different ways of seeing things from different cultures right in my own family, so that seeps into my fan fiction in these made up cultures. I can't really say the Vulcans are anti-feminist or that they are feminist just because they bond kids at age seven because they have the telepathy issue which complicates their culture. Science fiction is about speculation, so I speculate, LOL.

And I never said he was evil or wicked...and for his culture's social norms, there's probably nothing (much) wrong with what he's done. However, I believe he's spineless compared to T'Pol, and as a human woman, I find T'Pol's end of the situation more relatable and more deserving of my sympathy, is all I'm saying. It doesn't mean I want it all simplistic and spoon-feedy; it just means that T'Pol is the one I really identify with in that whole mess.

[Alelou]

I take your point, Aquarius, and of course I still sympathize more with T'Pol myself -- but like Linda I just also like to turn it around and see it from the other side. How can you really understand T'Pol and value the very real difficulties she faces in loving Trip unless you've attempted to understand where she's coming from? Koss and T'Les's behavior is our best clue as to what is considered normal, appropriate behavior at this point on Vulcan.

And obviously if we judge T'Pol by purely human standards she's treated Trip like dirt and he's an idiot to still want to talk to her, let alone love her. Part of the reason I love this episode is that Trip is able to put himself in T'Pol's shoes himself, and do what appears to be best for her, even as badly as it must hurt.

Minor quibble, but I don't believe a Vulcan woman becomes her husband's 'property' unless she declares the Kalifee. That's one of the risks of going that route.

[Asso]

Minor quibble, but I don't believe a Vulcan woman becomes her husband's 'property' unless she declares the Kalifee.

No?

[Alelou]

T'PAU: What they are about to see comes down from the time of the beginning, without change. This is the Vulcan heart. This is the Vulcan soul. This is our way. Kah-if-farr.
(Spock is about to strike the gong again, when T'Pring intervenes.)
T'PRING: Kal-if-fee!
KIRK: What is it? What happened?
T'PAU: She chooses the challenge.
MCCOY: (pointing at T'Pau's bodyguard) With him?
T'PAU: He acts only if cowardice is seen. She will choose her champion.
KIRK: Spock?
T'PAU: Do not attempt to speak with him, Kirk. He is deep in the plak-tow, the blood fever. He will not speak with thee again until he has passed through what is to come. If thee wishes to depart, thee may leave now.
KIRK: We'll stay.
T'PAU: Spock chose his friends well.
MCCOY: Ma'am, I don't understand. Are you trying to say that she rejected him? That she doesn't want him?
T'PAU: He will have to fight for her. It is her right. T'Pring, thee has chosen the kal-if-fee, the challenge. Thee are prepared to become the property of the victor?
T'PRING: I am prepared.

[Alelou]

P.S. LOL. T'Pau needs to work on her ancient Vulcan. It should be "Thou art prepared...?"