Archer - Dweeb or Hero?

[WarpGirl]

I respectfully disagree. But what you said right here... As time passes, though, I think he begins to consider her some sort of special case, a not-really-very-Vulcan person, in order to maintain his prejudices while still counting her as a friend. Is my entire point. And Archer never overcomes that, from what I've seen.

[Aquarius]

I don't think he necessarily sees her as un-Vulcan, so much as it's a case of "Your're alright, for a Vulcan." A minor distinction, yes, but a distinction nonetheless.

Trip, by contrast, has moved from "You're alright, for a Vulcan" to "Hey, I think I kind of like this..."

[WarpGirl]

I don't think he necessarily sees her as un-Vulcan, so much as it's a case of "Your're alright, for a Vulcan." A minor distinction, yes, but a distinction nonetheless.

Still not a good attitude for the founder of the Federation, or any leader for that matter.

[panyasan]

I don't think he necessarily sees her as un-Vulcan, so much as it's a case of "Your're alright, for a Vulcan." A minor distinction, yes, but a distinction nonetheless.

Still not a good attitude for the founder of the Federation, or any leader for that matter.

You will be suprised how many leaders will act that way. Good leadership is hard to get. I also think Archer still has some prejudice, but he has grown some respect for T'Pol. (In contrast, his attitude towards her in *the_abomination* - that hologramm which showed the view of people in the 24th century - is very condensending. , so I happy with the view that he is thinking of her as you're alright, for a Vulcan. )

[Escriba]

Yeah, I actually like the glare she throws him when he tells her: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened that you are."

Another moment where I shouted: "Kill him, T'Pol!"

[panyasan]

Yeah, I actually like the glare she throws him when he tells her: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened that you are."

Another moment where I shouted: "Kill him, T'Pol!"

I also felt "murderous" when I saw that scene.

I would love to write a scene where we can hear T'Pols thoughts at that moment, something like that she knows something is fishy about Trips death, she mourning Trip absence and then Archer throws her an absolutly not-deserved insult. Come on, she is the one who paid a price for sticking up for the Andorians.

[Alelou]

Eh, it's just more proof of how the twit who wrote that holonovel in the 23rd century really didn't know crap about the NX-01.

[Aquarius]

Yeah, I actually like the glare she throws him when he tells her: "You don't trust Andorians. You never have. Thank God the Vulcan Council is a little more enlightened that you are."

Another moment where I shouted: "Kill him, T'Pol!"

Yeah, I kind of wanted to punch him in the nose for that, if she wouldn't.

[WarpGirl]

A jerk is a jerk, if he doesn't want to change, Archer doesn't.

[Aquarius]

Well, like Alelou said, though, it does lose some of its potency if you're rejecting the entire episode as a bad holonovel. No one says that whoever created it had to get this right amidst so many other things that were wrong. It just kinda still bugged me any way, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to everything else that was wrong with this episode.

[WarpGirl]

Well even in Terra Prime he's a jerk. Oh and I saw E2 recently, and he gave Phlox a death glare when he told T'Pol Lorien was Trip. He looked almost enraged. I didn't like him or Lorien, they were bookends. Lorien was even mean too T'Pol2. But I guess Archer screwed him up being Godfather after Trip2 died.

[honeybee]

I just had a MB run in with a passionate, passionate Archer/T'Pol shipper. It's amazing - she hates Trip, thinks that there was chemistry between SB/JB and loves *the_abomination*. It was like wandering into bizarro world. But it is amazing that mileage can vary so much.

I'm not sure what SB was playing in that E2 scene when he finds out Lorian's paternity. It could be jealousy, but also shock. And later in the episode, he seems cool about it when he offers to send Trip to see T'Pold.

But in any case, I always thought that the show missed the opportunity to show Archer dealing with the fact that his two best friends/senior officers were involved. I liked the A/T friendship - and it would have been interesting to see it evolve in the face of a TnT romance.

[WarpGirl]

OK why on EARTH would anyone hate Trip? Even if they do ship A/T there is nothing about Trip to hate. He's a good decent man, you don't have to hate Trip to ship A/T! That's crazy. As for the A/T friendship well I don't necessarily see it more as a deep respect. However I don't think Archer would ever jump up and down and cheer for TnT. Not because of T'Pol per se, I think he accepts there's no chance for him to have her. I just don't think he'd like being third wheel.

[honeybee]

I agree completely, Warpgirl. With everything you said.

[Asso]

OK why on EARTH would anyone hate Trip? Even if they do ship A/T there is nothing about Trip to hate. He's a good decent man, you don't have to hate Trip to ship A/T! That's crazy. As for the A/T friendship well I don't necessarily see it more as a deep respect. However I don't think Archer would ever jump up and down and cheer for TnT. Not because of T'Pol per se, I think he accepts there's no chance for him to have her. I just don't think he'd like being third wheel.

Well said.