T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[panyasan]

I think TnT have to find their own way of having a relationship with the whole package: communication, sharing, laugther and expressing your love like a human and like a Vulcan. I think it would be hard for Trip - even if he understands - if T'Pol doesn't learn to express her love also physically. I don't mean just sexual, but a touch, a hand on your shoulder or back, a sweet kiss, can mean so much. (And as Asso pointed out: T'Pol can kiss! )

[WarpGirl]

I think it can work itself out, but not if they just jump each other and forget the rest. There's always an ozh'esta which comon is kind of sexy when your fingers are moving into your inner wrist.

[Asso]

Mh.... a kiss is a kiss. I think.

[panyasan]

I think it can work itself out, but not if they just jump each other and forget the rest. There's always an ozh'esta which comon is kind of sexy when your fingers are moving into your inner wrist.

That's true.

[WarpGirl]

I don't think T'Pol needs to physically smile or laugh to get her points across either, what do you think the eyebrow is for? If they could both just be who and WHAT they are and let the other be who and WHAT they are, things can work out.

[Asso]

Okay. Kisses and ozh'estas. I... eh eh... agree.

[WarpGirl]

OK maybe it doesn't work for men, but there is a reason you test a baby's bottle on your inner wrist. It's sensitive, and a pair of worn strong fingers would feel nice. That and there's no wierd cultural stigma to deal with. It could work for men, don't they test the baby's bottle the same way????

[Asso]

It sounds that Human habit to kiss descends from the animal habit to bit.
Possession and passion.
For men and women.
And then... didn't I say that I agree with you?

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl. They were letting the other be what they were. that was the problem. Neither really knew what the other was. they knew what they wanted the other to be but that is not the same thing.

The should have found some common ground, anything to get a foothold. Just being two people from diferent species would be hard enough. They need to be more a man and a woman and forget Human and vulcan. Had they done that I believe they could have communicated better and with more undertanding.

Trip should have looked at t-Pol as a Woman first, last, and always. HIs woman that he loved because she was just the type of woman he most desired.

She should have loooked on him as a male, admitedly not as avulcan male but as a male. She should have seen him as he was. RThe male she desired and wanted.

They should have let the chemistry between them work. It was so evident.

[WarpGirl]

OK I mistyped. What I meant was no unreasonable expectations on either side. Trip isn't going to become a vegetarian and start trying to surpress his feelings in the Vulcan way. He's not going to quiet down and not lose his temper at times. But T'Pol isn't going to kiss him like in Bound in a roomfull of people, she's not going to smile and laugh, like a human woman would. And she is not going to just blurt out private things like I love you at random.

[Alelou]

[/b]

Especially when one at least one party literally has no other way to express love.

OK This is so NOT TRUE I can't even laugh it off. Vulcans DO express love. Do you think Amanda Greyson was only given love by Sarek in bed? Do you think the only time Tuvok and his wife only expressed love when having sex? That's absolutely the MOST crazy thing about Vulcans I have EVER "heard." T'Pol was expressing love for Trip just by doing nuropressure on him. Do you think she would have done it for Malcolm or Travis? NO WAY. OK maybe T'Pol would never say "I love you" in public, or hold hands, or kiss him in front of people who aren't family. But there are other ways to give love. She gives him unconditional support, she helps him grow and become a better man, and engineer. She CARES about him more than any other person in her life. To have your communication based on sex seems to me to be cheapening the whole relationship. They are much more than sex.

Of course there are plenty of ways to express love and affection other than having sex.

But I'm sorry, even saying "I love you, poopy schmoopy" and giving goopy Hallmark Cards and a bouquet of roses on every official occasion and being best friends who can talk about anything and even being there in all the other ways that matter is no substitute for having good loving sex with each other once in awhile, and I'm just talking about humans here, not even Vulcans.

Raising your eyebrow affectionately just ain't going to cut it forever.

[WarpGirl]

I didn't say it wasn't important just not the basis for a strong relationship inevitably frought with problems of two different sexes and spieces. For that to happen there are higher priorities than sex, especially when the babies come.

[Silverbullet]

No, but she doesn't even do or say those tings when they are in private. She tells him that she needs him but doesn't explain why. In bound they are alone in the hall. She kisses him passionately why doesn't she say something, anything. Why doesn't she tell him that the thing begtween them is a BIG DEAL. She doesn't say a word.

perhaps Trip was waiting for her to say just that. So when she didn't he said that they had a lot of work to do. They did and a good deal of that work was getting t-Pol to come out of her defensive crouch and shell and be up front with Trip.

He had with her. She knew he loves her. but he doesn't know if she has any feeling for him at all. He only has hope to go on. She simply doesn't give him a hook to hang his hopes on.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, how do you expect babies to come without SEX. That is an important part of a relationship. No sex can kill a marrriage very quickly. Man doesn't get it at home he goes loking for it elsewhere. so do some females.

Infidelity is another marriage killer. Sex can keep that from happening if the two really care for one another.

I know that there are some women who use sex as weapon to hold an advanrtage over a man. BAD, Bad, Bad.

Once was on a board where a woman bragged that she witheld Sex in order to drive the male into doing exactly what she wanted and that was for him to work all day and then come home to do the housework while she sat on her can all day "dabling" in painting. He finally had enough but she got a smart lawyer and she got half of the business that he started and built up while she contributed nothing. She also got him to maintain a health insurance for her and she got the house. all he got was his freedom which was porbalby enough.

[WarpGirl]

Dear this is a cultural thing again, and these things take time to work out. OK pretend you're a Vulcan, not a Vulcan woman, just your everyday average Joe Vulcan. You're in a relationship with a human whom you've just kissed in a manner that could lead to suffocation, in a public area of the ship, where ANYONE could walk by. Now, considering Vulcans don't kiss like humans as a rule, and they don't really touch each other in public, do you think you'd need to say words to confirm your devotion. Ummm I-L-L-O-G-I-C-A-L. Yeah she has to learn but it takes time. Besides she groveled to get him to stay, there is such a thing as dignity you know. Not as important as love of course, but she was already WAY beyond her comfort zone. They BOTH have to cut each other some slack.

OH PLEASE! I'm 25 I know where babies come from. I'm just saying sex isn't the life-blood of a marriage, just a vien.