T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

Goodnight. Anyway I watched a documentery on the Yakusa the other day and it seemed to fit a lot. Also I am a HUGE ancient History buff with pretty much all the ancient superpowers. I started at age 5. Weirdest little girl in Kingdergarden I had the books on temples and mummies. So the ancient Greeks fit particularly well. Than again the Romans are the Romulans. So makes sense. Surak was always the Vulcan equivilant to Gahndi and Buddah so there is my possibly insane reasoning. Now I am off to shower and bed. Big day tomorrow, shopping and lunch with mama happy day.

[Escriba]

Surak was always the Vulcan equivilant to Gahndi and Buddah so there is my possibly insane reasoning.

Actually, after reading Surak's quotes that you put some time ago, Surak is Gandalf. No, I mean it.

Anyway, if Vulcans are Greek (and I can only see this if we take Stoic Greeks; and you have them in Rome too), that sucks a lot for Vulcan women. A lot. Except if they were Spartan

[WarpGirl]

I think it's a mix, of a lot of elements of ancient Greek society. Of course there's no hard and fast rules, it's just what I see.

[Escriba]

No, no, it's all right. I think it's a mix too.

[WarpGirl]

Speaking of Spartans, you had a point. I'm assuming after a child is bonded at 7 that they would be taught to care for themselves properly, espically the boys in case of a future Kali-fee, and the girls would take care of themselves to survive a Pon farr. Spartan children had similar training so they would bare strong healthy children. Also Despite ENT claim that hey go into a marriage knowing nothing, I'm sure they're taught their rolls in family relationships. As for the Athenian influence, if I read correctly it's Trip who answers the door when Koss shows up... Why? T'Les is right there. I saw an explanation in a fic over at HoT that I agree with, it's a custom that goes back to pre-Surak where a man would open the door in case it was a rival clan coming to take his wife and children, or mothers and sisters. Vulcans appreciate symbols. Anyway Athenian women could barely leave the house except to go to the well. I know that was for many sexist reasons, but they were protected to an extent as well.

Just some thoughts.

[Escriba]

Well, the true is that T'Les doesn't open the door because she was cleaning the vegetables right then and her hands were wet (and she had to take out the glove with which she was cleaning them.) But, you know, simple explanations suck

[WarpGirl]

Oh you had to ruin the moment.

[Silverbullet]

Spartan women had more freedom than Athenian women but were stilll expected to folllow some ruules and traditions.

Ahtenian women were more or less in Purdah. They kept to the house, they were modest in the exteme. They did not expect to be part of their husbands lives except as wives.

When athenian males had a dinner party Wives were never there. Only Hoarati (sp)
Women who were intelligent, could discuss the latest in politics, economics and the like. they were excellent dinner companions and also were entertainers. they could dance sing and play inntrusments. They generally were not Prostitutes at dinner Parties. Later yes. they also were very beautiful. Believe that the woman who posed for the Venus de Milo was a very famous Hoarati.

these women also became wealthy from gifts and saving.

Anyway, Athenian wives Bore the children, kept the house and was a companion to her husband while he ws home.

Spartan women Were in many ways like teir men. Proud and courageous.

Remeber the Spartans woman when she handed her man his shiield. "Here is your shiield, come back on it or with it." Or the story of the spartan woman who stabbed and killled her son because he had a wound in his back and she thought he had turned ar ran from the enemy.

Intresting people those greeks.

[Asso]

ASSO dear please don't be upset. We just want to understand. That way we can look at things in a new way. You know, "Challenge your preconceptions." That's what we want to do. Your opinions are special.

You are a sweetheart and I melt.

[WarpGirl]

Not really I just tell the truth. But thank you for the kind compliment.

[Asso]

In any case, the remains.

[WarpGirl]

You know the origional theme of this thread has gotten a little lost, and while I was shaving my legs a thought occured to me and I didn't quite know how to express it. Now I've found since I joined here that the very witty and nice Mr. KTR Has a knack for expressing my ideas better than I do. I like to think this is because he has more experience writing professionally and not because I'm a moron but that is a possibility. People seem to think that I want T'Pol to be an emotionaless paragon of pure logic. Ummm NO! So I went scouting on his site, hoping for inspiration. Fortunately I found it in his wonderful review of Fusion. Instead of trying to paraphrase, I'm just going to quote. Not a single word is mine...

While indeed interesting to watch, the problem is that we again see T'Pol forced into displaying emotions. We've seen it before (in Fusion, The Seventh and in Bounty for instance) and we'll see it again. I don't mind T'Pol as a character with emotions closer to the surface than other Vulcans (all Vulcans aren't cut from the same cloth) but why constantly force it on her? Why not let her experience and discover it herself in a more natural fashion? Why did the writers and producers feel it necessary to create artificial means, whether they were mind-rapes, pa'nar syndrome or Trellium-D, for her?

And might I add is it too much to ask that SHE control these emotions instead of them controling her!

Also from KTR...

The MACO sergeant, Hawkins, also had a nice moment with T'Pol when he tried to help her out on the Seleya, giving her water and talking to her. I couldn't help but to think that T'Pol's comment to him about "a common misconception" regarding Vulcans' apparent lack of emotions was directed at some fans who don't like it when Vulcans exhibit emotions. But T'Pol made it quite clear that they do have them, they just suppress and control them.

I might add that I AM NOT one of those fans that dislike Vulcans "exhibiting emotions" no true Trek fan can watch scenes with Spock, Sarek, and Tuvok and rightly claim that Vulcans do not express emotions. The point is Vulcans express them differently! If I didn't want T'Pol to have emotions I would not want her to live a long and fulfilled life with Trip.

[pdsldl]

So how should T'Pol express her emotions? In private I'm sure, but other than that what would she do differently?

[WarpGirl]

Um like Sarek in "Search For Spock" Like Tuvok in Gravity and Body and Soul.... The list goes on.

[Silverbullet]

That was the Problem with T-Pol. Damned Writers had no idea of how
she should act.


They showed her as unemotional but they aso showed her Angry in Strange New Worlds. she was shouting at Trip in anger in that Episodes.

then they had her show jealousy and anger in Unexpected. also Anger and Jealousy in Oasis.

In Harbinger she is shown as jealous, Hurt by coles telling her that Trip shared information about his sister. t-Pol obviously felt that that was something that he had shared only with
Her. Lots of times she showed Emotion. but usually she had this grim vulcan face on.

The writers Jerked the T-Pol characteer around a great deal.

Won't even talk about Bounty.