T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

ASSO Of course I'm glad that T'Pol is a woman! Heck, I've only waited my whole life for a Vulcan woman to be a real part of a series. Saavik never counted. But if the character had been a man they wouldn't have written it to be so desperate to conform. Men have the advantage of going through this world being exactly who they are without severe criticism in most cases. There are exceptions, but it isn't a general rule. Women on the other hand are routinely pressured to conform with all sorts of standards and if we don't, we're labled with all sorts of nasty names.

I'm not saying T'Pol had to be Spock or Sarek, but I would have liked to see her have some dignity and self respect. They tried to take it from her in The Seventh, and Stigma. Heck they succeeded in Parts of the Vulcan Arc. The whole Trellium D was completely humiliating, having this women think she has to abase herself, in order to feel and have a relationship with those around her. Like I said I don't mind that she had emotions ALL VULCANS HAVE EMOTIONS! What I mind is that they didn't give her an oppertunity to control them instead of them controling her, making her weak, vain, and selfish at times. That's disrespectful TO HER. I love T'Pol but she was treated shamefully. Her emotions didn't bring her peace, or contentment. Not even in the best of times did she have real happiness with Trip or anyone else. That's just sickening. Her culture is important and they kept making it something to be ashamed of. They would have handled it differently if she had been a man. T'Pol was always being admonished for being who and what she was as a Vulcan, and I hated that.

My point is she shouldn't have needed ANYONE human or Vulcan to pressure her into being anything other than who she was. She got it from both sides.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, Good Morning.

You are right. T-Pol was not treated with the dignity and respect she deserved especially in bounty, the Seventh, Stigma, anomoly, Azati Prime. Probably not in the Vulcan Arc too.

In many Facfics she is also not treated with dignity or respect.

She seems to be a favorite target because she is different. She is a female Vulcan among Humans on a human Starship.

Actuallly the only place I believe she does get some rspect is in her relationship with Trip. He respects her, loves her, tries to protect her and wants nothing more than to spend the rest of his life with her. No other Human comes near that. That gives her an anchor to ground her.

It is writers that really spoil the t-Pol character. She could have and should have been so much more. There was hints of her background that were interesting but only used to enhance Archer (the Seventh and the Vulcan Arc.) That was one of the problems with the tPol character too she was used an as appendage of Archer. Hero worshipping side kick. too often showing much more respect than he deserved and giving him too much credit for things.

I just wish that she had not been shoved into that First Officer position that she was not legaly entilted too. Better that she just remained the Science Officer where her expertise lay.

[WarpGirl]

Good Morning Silverbullet! Sorry I was so witchy yesterday. People seem to think that I don't want T'Pol to have her own unique identity as a Vulcan and a woman. NOT TRUE! My problem is that they didn't give her a unique identity at all, merely pushed human ideals on her and tried to discrace her to her own people. I don't want her to be a clone of the past, I want her to have a unique viewpoint, what I don't like is that they made her emotions into something bad. Like her seduction of Trip... Yes she was claiming her mate, WONDERFUL. That should have been something to bring them both contentment and security. What happened? A MESS! She wasn't using the teachings of her culture, or being true to herself and it caused a heck of a lot of problems.

[Silverbullet]

True. that night should have led them to a shared Love and an intimate relationshi.

that stupid Morning after and the rest of her tratment of Trip created by the writers and TPTB was asinine. We had to slog through all of that just for a little hint of what could and might be in Terra Prime.

That is why I love many Fanfics so much.

T-Pol's behavior was totally OOC. Even a vulcan would not have been capable of hurting the Man she knew she loved that much.

One other thing about T-Pol's behavior was that TPTB had the writers trying to force an A/TP relationship down our throats.

Sort of in a funny mood this morning from reading the end of a fan fic yeseerday. I loved the first 25 chapters and absolutely hated the last two and the epilogue.

[WarpGirl]

Oh which one? I'm not going into Harbinger again you know how I feel about it. The entire thing was just WRONG! Does anyone honestly believe that if It had been a Male Vulcan and a human woman that it would have played out like that? Give me a break!

[Silverbullet]

Probably not.

But Harbiner was such a lousy episode. the Reed hayes thing was stupid. Only part of that which was realistic was the chewing out that Archer gave them.

As far as the Alien, think it was only used as an excuse for the announcement "all senior Officers to heir posts."

That was stupid also. the alien should have been handled by the Maacos and the security teams. Also as I have said Engineering should have had three shifts and there should have been people on duty in there. why was Trip alone in engineering and why did the alien attack him when the aliens was concentrating on destroying the engines or at least damanging them enough to disable tthe Enterprise.

Knocking Trip out prevented him from going back to T-Pol quarters and continuing where htey left off.

As I say, they should not have been called to man their posts anyway. It was the job of the Maacos and the Security teams and the rest of the crew should have stayed in their quarters so as not to hamper the ones charged with things like catching and stopping Aliens loose on enterprise.

BTW, that Fanfic I believe I will keep secret. Many would have me drawn and quarted if I revealed that I did not like the last of it.

[WarpGirl]

I KNOW that if T'Pol had been a man and Trip had been a woman it wouldn't have turned out like that. A. Someone would scream about the guy being a jerk to do that to woman, nevermind that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to seduce a man that way... B. If said Vulcan male backed out like T'Pol did the next morning all sorts of hell would be raised about defiling Vulcan honor. C. NOBODY would believe a male Vulcan would drug himself like that but a woman SURE because she's fragile and she wants to go slumming and everyone to accept her. BULL!

[Silverbullet]

Hey, here on Earth let a woman back out on a mariage at the altter and all that happens is the man is told Bad Luck.

If a man does it the lynch Mob forms and a Rope is hung over a high branch and the groom is left twisting in the wind.

I don't know if a vulcan male would or would not do something like that given the same set of cirucmstances and the same motivations.

T-Plol should not have done that to trip nor should a vulan male do that to a human female.

I don't believe that it should be done by either a male or female.

The Morning after scene was only bypassed by *the_abomination* for sheer stupidity and sheer meaness
to the fans.

Well, I guess HOme qualifies too the marriage of T-Pol and Koss ranked right up there with Harbiner and *the_abomination*.

But you are right, probably a male would have been given a pass on it whereas a female would be burned at the stake as a witch.

[WarpGirl]

Dear you're missing my point, IF a Vulcan man dropped his robe at a human female and just jumped and starting kissing her, A LOT of people would get VERY mad saying Vulcan men don't act like that... Heck because of the strength thing some people would scream date rape. But it's perfectly acceptable for T'Pol to do that and everyone is like nice. OH PLEASE! Gag me. As for the Morning after scene people would be furious if a Vulcan man did that because it would not happen, a Vulcan man would believe that said human woman was HIS end of discussion because that's how Vulcans view it. But here is a VULCAN with the same cultural values and because she's a woman she can toss over said shmuck, and it's fine but she's a witch.

[Silverbullet]

Well, she did SEDUCE him. He was lured by the seductive female dropping her rome and giving him a look at paradise and offering it to him on a platter.

Poor guy what could he do? He was like a man who had been poleaxed.

Oh, I imagine he recoverd quickly enough but intially he was SEDUCED. Man does that to an innocent female and it is BAD. He SEDUCED the poor girl little innocent thing SEDuCEd by that CAD. sounds a little like Date Rape that way

[WarpGirl]

Which is why I object to the whole thing. If it's wrong for a man to do that to a woman it's wrong for a woman to do that to a man. And since we're takling about Vulcans here it's even more revolting.

[Silverbullet]

Yes given the wrong motivations: Just for the conquest. Copping a virginity. Or just to see if it can be done.

Her motivatins were at least honorable.

she used the only thing she could think of that would elimate the threat of cole.

She knew that she wanted Trip for herself but did not understand the human male enough to go through the courtship that humans indulge in.

so, in her mind she fought Fire with Fire. cole represented a sexual threat. There was
a real possiblity that Cole would seduce Trip or lure him into bedding her.

That come hither look in a womans eyes can undo a male. cole had it all laid out on
the line. She kisssed Trp and her actions promised more. also she got too familiar wit him Patting him on the Butt that loooked possesive. cole laid hands on him as if she owned him. that wasn't a friendly pal kind of pat it was an intimate kind of pat.

No, Cole was starting to set up a night of love with Trip. She ws taking it slowly so as not to have him run.

Trip was being stalked by Cole even if he was not aware of it.

t-Pol sensed it and knew she had to do something.

so she used the one thing that would work, herself.

It did work too. No more cole.

[WarpGirl]

But it made A MESS. And because she was Vulcan and wasn't prepared for the consequences it screwed up both their lives. But if the character had been a man it wouldn't have happened. That makes me mad. A woman defies her heritage, does drugs, and we're supposed to think it's fine. But if a man had done all that there would be outrage. She could have expressed her feelings for Trip in a rational, yet passionate way. But they cheapened it with sex at the wrong time and drugs.

[Silverbullet]

Well the writers damned sure did cheapen her with the Drugs, That Mind Rape, The syndrome, Bounty (I hate that Episode, it was so embarassing to watch.)

Yes, they could have had t-Pol express her love to Trip in many ways but they chose to go the Angst route.

As Jolene said: "either have a relationship or don't."

[WarpGirl]

The whole thing was stupid and disrespectful to Vulcan women.