T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

You have a good point. I don't claim to be an expert on the writing politics of ST. I only know things started to go seriously screwy when Jeri Talyor left at the end of VOY's 3rd, or 4th season. I do know that the people of DS9 never wrote for either VOY or ENT.

Anyway I don't see what T'Pol2 could say to Trip that wouldn't violate T'Pol1's privacy. Other than be patient, she's a fish out of water right now. And he does know that. So what would be the point?

[Silverbullet]

Actuallly Warpgirl, I am not sure.

In the Episode I thought that Trip too should have been invited along with T-Pol
to the conference room as Engineering would be a critical part of what Lorain was going to propose.

I disliked the dialogue between the Young T-Pol and trip.

Thought that Trip shoulld have seen the Old t-Pol as I believe it would have been an interesting dialogue.

I noticed that Trip (CT) was not in the last half or more ofthe episode. After he and t-Pol had that spat about why he married such a stuborn woman and walked out that was all we ever saw of trip in that Episode.

Wait, no he gets gunned down by Lorain in one quick scene and then disappears.

e2 could have been a marvelous episode handled properly. It was screwed up from first to last.

IMHO

[WarpGirl]

T'Pol's dialog with Trip made a lot of sense to me given what she was going through physically and mentally. Was it nice? No. Do I understand it very much so. So no I can't say I minded that. But for the actual mission Trip was horribly misused. I hate that he is professionally ignored most of the time in ENT. Yeah CT is a great emotional actor, but his part is chief engineer and 3rd in command! Have him be that for god's sake. Anyway back to the T'Pol's I can understand T'Pol2 not wanting to see him. I can't imagine the pain it would have caused.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, this has been tossed about in other boards. It has caused some heat in those discussions. there are those who say it must be accepted becasue TPTB decreed it so.

However. Trip should have been first officer.

He was the second highest ranking Starfleet Officer on Board Enterprise. Enteprise is a starfleet Spaceship officered and crewed by Humans with the exception of Phlox who would never be in a command position.

T-Pol was a visitiing Officer from an alien species and an Officer in an alien military. she was not Human was not a Starfleet Officer. She had no Rank or status on board the enterpise. Period. No mater what her rank was in the VHC it was squat on Enterpise. so she could not have been first Offixcer or XO. that would have set a very dangerous precedent for Starfleet. it would have opened the door to the vulcans demanding that all Starfleet ships have vulcans as first Officers. At no time could she be first Officer or even in command of
Enterrpise. In the third season she was a Civlian on Enterpise she had no rank at all so she could not be first officer or in command of enterprise at any time. Trip was second in comand and he would be first officer and XO and in command when Archer was off ship. In the fourth season even after T-Pol joined Starfleet and was commisioned as a full commander Trip
would have time in service and time in grade on her and would be the senior Commander and still first officer and Xo and still in command when Archer was off ship.

Archer could NOT have appointed her as first officer and could NOT have given her a brevet rank. that was against regs and could only be done by Starfleet admirality board and that Board would not do it. If Archer did try it he would be liablel to courtmartial and loss of rank also he would have been pulled as commanding Officer of Enterprise and brought back to earth to face trial.

this has bugged Hell out of me for alng time and others too.

Oh,you can go to sites that say that T-Pol was first officer and XO but all they are doing is to echo what TPTB dictated.

Believe that Bragga and co were so intent on making Ent a carbon copy of TOS that they just had to have a vulcan as First Officer, XO and science officer even if they had to do it by the back door.

[WarpGirl]

Well I don't believe she should have had the TITLE of First Officer until she had a commission in Starfleet. But that is a matter of protocal, I had no problem with her distarging the duties of an XO. Trip had his hands full in Engineering, why put more strain of the most vital officer on the ship? That being said Trip didn't even get that respect. Scotty was lauded, Geordie was praised, B'Elanna was a varitable Goddess (rightly so), and O'Brian was hailed. Trip, nope. Archer was a shoe-in cause daddy designed the engine. You know what's funny, we're discussing T'Pol on the Trip thread and Trip on the T'Pol thread... It's backwards.

[Alelou]

I just don't see all this Trip-dissing and oppressing that you do. They had strains in their relationship at times, some of them brought on by Trip's bad behavior and not just Archer's, but it was clear they were buddies and had been for a long time. Of course the relationship was always a bit unequal since Archer had the advantage in age and rank from the beginning.

I do think Silverbullet has a point about the XO job. In a real world, he's absolutely right. But for telling TV dramas, the way they did it worked better. Trip was like a cross between McCoy and Scotty -- the plain-speaking friend, but also third in command and able to play a more active role in the plots.

[WarpGirl]

Trip just didn't get to shine as much as other Chief Engineers. With the creative problem solving, and saving the ship from certain DOOM! <insert Dr. Chaotica laughter> Malcolm I will grant you was very complimentary. But all in all he just wasn't appreciated for his skills to the degree of the others. That being said I didn't mention his being oppressed. Dissed? Well he was in Babel 1 When Acher kicked him out of the banquet.

[Alelou]

Eh, I don't miss the miraculous technobabble last-minute salvations from the other shows AT ALL. Not that we still didn't have them, as in Similitude.

That Babel scene still puzzles me a bit. Is Archer reacting to Trip's possible dig at T'Pol, or is he just playing with Trip's head for the sheer joy of psyching him out? He definitely does do that periodically throughout the series. Trip does it too, but to Malcolm. I'd put that in the category of teasing.

[WarpGirl]

The look on his Archer's didn't say teasing to me at all. Even T'Pol looked flummoxed. Anyway, I do miss it. I love Scotty, Geordie, and B'Elanna doing their thing. That's what makes it exciting and the job so COOL!

[Silverbullet]

Trip was a good Officer and had his section highly trained. I always liked Fanfics that had that female second in command in Engineering. so when trip was acting as first officeer she could easily handle engineering Anna Hess.

T-Poll wore two hats too. Science Officer and the illegal First Officer. Science was very important too. She could have just as easily got tied up with that as Trip with engineering.

Actually, there should have been a first officr appointed to Enterprise from the git go. In all of the other series there was a first officer from the start of the series. NOt in Ent and I feel that was done on purpsoe because the BeeBs were intent on making t-Pol first Officr regardless if it was realistic or not.

Trip's mistake was not going to Starfleet and protesting ARchers atempt to make t-Pol first officer. Never went along with T-Pol when she told Trip that she would get into contact with the VHC and it would contact Starfleet and Starfleet would back her claim to outrank
Trip and could assume the first officer position.

doubt highly if Starfleet would have gone along with that. The vulcans wanted Starfleet to put off going out with a Starship for ten years and starfleet went anyway so Starfleet would not let the vulcans dictate their chain of comand on a Starfleet Starship.

so are we back on topic about Trip's mistakes. Big one as far as I am concerned. Even if he risked Archer's ire going to starfleet to object. Archer risked more in insisting that t-Pol was first officer. Stilll think that Starfleet would have backed Trip on this.

[WarpGirl]

Dearie wrong thread!

[Silverbullet]

OOOPPPS.

Okay t-Pol's unvulllcan behavior. She should have turnned down the first Officer position. she knew she had no comand experience at all. she knew she was an outsider on the ship. She would be uncertain if the crew would obey any orders coming from her or turn to Trip as second highest Ranking Human Starfleet Officer. She knew that Trip had more command experience if only because he comanded a large engineering Staff. she would have been in over her head and she knew that too.

Now, off screen Trip may have told her that he would be behind he at all times to jump in to help if she got into any trouble and that he would tell the crew to go along with Archer making her first officr if for no other reason than to save disent among the crew. Probably many wanting to go along with Archer and many insisting that Trip as second highest ranking
Human Officer should have their allegance and obedience.

[WarpGirl]

Oh Darling do you honestly think that a 60 odd year old woman that has spent her entire adult life on starships, and in the VHC has no command experience? What???? Sorry she has more command experience than Archer. Not that they ever wrote that at all.

[Silverbullet]

She was in Vulcan Intelligence before she came in to the Science Direcorate. She said that she had served a year on the Vulcan ship as intelligence Officer. that was all. She had NO command experience. She was a covert intellligence Officer who probably worked alone or in a smal team during her time in vulcan Intelligence. She did NOT spend her entire life serving on space shps. When she ws on one she served as intelliigence officer and had no command duties.

Trip was far more exprerienced than she was. he at least commanded a fairly large section on board the ship. Hell he probably hd more command experience than Archer did as Arccher was just a Test Pilot before being appointed to command the Enterrpise and I think that the only reason he got that was gecause of his daddy.

T-Pol had NO command experiece at all. She was in intelligence as a covert agent then in the Science Directorate. She only served on the shelya (sp) as intelligence Officer for one year and as far as the series goes that was it. Where would she get command experience.

[WarpGirl]

ok Dear you REALLY need to see the Vulcan Arc. ALL OF IT, no skipping because you don't like Archer. T'Pol actually meets a former officer UNDER HER COMMAND! And I said she spent her entire ADULT life in the VHC, which she says herself. She was given command training, and she used it. And the VHC encompases all of the directorates, and serves as the chief Military organization. T'Pol was in the Vulcan Military, she was a Sub-Commander, Trip's equivilent rank. She had to have command experience.