Trip's Mistakes

[Alelou]

I think the Beebs even talk about that on the DVDs-- Trip was their Everyman, who got to have the reactions we would have had in that situation. It was part of the reason they loved writing for him. (Well, that and CT did such a good job bringing him to life.) Sometimes people think this essentially made him into a clown, but I don't see it that way. He's just very human.

[WarpGirl]

OK Aquarius Why would you think, I would think, you're slamming Trip? I'm not out to get you, we're "friends" right??????? Anyway, yes he's very human but I don't believe there is such a thing as an "Average" human. We're all just too unique for that word, it shouldn't be applied to people. Normal is another word I hate.

[Silverbullet]

Let me put it this way. I look at Entrprise and Trip is the guy I would like to be if I were on that show. Not Archer or Travis or Malcom or Hayes. Trip. He doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary until you watch him and then you see that he is. He has a quality about him that stands out. Believe that Trip elipsed Archer hands down.

Even with the efforts made to make Archer look extraordinary Trip just looked better.

In Cease Fire when trip was in command of Enterprise he loooked every inch a Captain confident, quiet, but authoritive. he gave his crew confidence in his ability and his decisions.

Archer never came across that way to me. Which is why I say that I would far rather be trip than any other character in the cast.

[WarpGirl]

I concur Silverbullet. However I also think Malcolm, and Hayes were very fine men.

[Aquarius]

I think the Beebs even talk about that on the DVDs-- Trip was their Everyman, who got to have the reactions we would have had in that situation. It was part of the reason they loved writing for him. (Well, that and CT did such a good job bringing him to life.) Sometimes people think this essentially made him into a clown, but I don't see it that way. He's just very human.

They did, and it was because of that commentary that I made that statement, even though it was pretty obvious even without hearing it from the horse's mouth.

OK Aquarius Why would you think, I would think, you're slamming Trip?

Um, because of that huge anti-"average" reaction, maybe?

Anyway, yes he's very human but I don't believe there is such a thing as an "Average" human. We're all just too unique for that word, it shouldn't be applied to people. Normal is another word I hate.

From Merriam-Webster online:

2 a: being about midway between extremes <a man of average height> b: not out of the ordinary

It's not a dirty word. It really isn't. And you yourself have talked about "universal constants", most recently in motherhood, which is not unlike saying that people who fall within these constants are "average" for what they're supposed to represent. Yes, Trip has some outstanding qualities that go above and beyond "average", but he's still a "regular guy," and that's okay, because that's why we like him.

[WarpGirl]

OK I didn't think I was freaking out. Anyway I simply believe humans have too many facets and variables to be described as average or normal. I never said it was a dirty word. Also I think Trip does have extremes in his personality, like we all do. So I guess the word I would use to describe Trip is common, or somebody with traits often found. And just to clarify I do believe in universal constants, but the still have variables that make applying them unique.

[Aquarius]

Also from Merriam-Webster online:

Main Entry:
2average
Function:
adjective
Date:
1770

1: equaling an arithmetic mean 2 a: being about midway between extremes <a man of average height> b: not out of the ordinary : common <the average person>

Bold type theirs. I only gave you a piece of it the first time around. So basically "average" and "common" are pretty synonymous here. Yes, each human is unique. Just like every snowflake. But they all have lots of things in common, too, and we can't disregard that just because it doesn't seem as politically correct or intellectual as stressing the differences, especially when zeroing in on similarities to average, reasonable people is what keeps TV characters relatable to an audience.

And I'm sorry if I seemed harsh and reactionary, but rather than addressing the point I was making, you picked out a word and now it's all about semantics.

[WarpGirl]

I don't deny it's about semantics. And you aren't being harsh. Personally, I just wish there were better words, I really don't like the word common either when discussing people or characters. And I don't focus on differences because it's politically correct. I focus on them because they're valid and I hate cookie cutter anything. The only thing a cookie cutter is good for is making sure cookies don't burn. Anyway if I had a better word I would use it, unfortunately people don't take invented words seriously unless you look like Beyonce.

[Aquarius]

Well, I don't know what to tell you about "better words." Language exists because we have to call it something. And there's nothing wrong with the word "average." I have a friend with a linguistics degree, and I'll bet she'll agree.

What I can tell you is that some poor slob is going to wake up tomorrow morning or come home from work or whatever, see all the activity on this thread, and hope that there's some meaty discussion about Trip's quirks, foibles, and missteps...and they're going to get this instead.

[WarpGirl]

Really well since I've been here staying on topic has never seemed to be a priority. Did they make a new rule?

[Aquarius]

No, no new rules, WarpGirl. And I go off-topic from time to time myself--I bust myself on that one all the time. But generally, we re-rail before it gets too far out of hand, or if something is THAT discussion-worthy, someone starts a new thread. (IE, the "local slang" thread that popped up today.) And while I still don't mind things being a little off-topic-y here and there, it's something I've been trying to be a little more conscious of lately (and, look, here we are, still off-topic, just on a different subject). I also don't want this to escalate into several pages in a row of the same two people arguing a point, much less a point that doesn't even address the point that was being made in the first place. This is a really big thread now, so I can imagine how frustrating it can be for a noob who's trying to observe some form of netiquette or other by looking for answers in existing topics and whatnot. I'm not trying to be the Topic Nazi here, I'm just trying to reel things in a bit. I know it's easy to get caught up in things when you're passionate about a subject--I know that's what happens when it's me wandering off on tangents, or following others on theirs--so it's with that in mind I suggest we get back to talking about Trip. It's cool if we want to talk about all this other stuff, but maybe a new thread is a good place to do it, since it's obviously taking up more than a few posts?

[WarpGirl]

Cool OK your turn... Which of Trip's mistakes do YOU want to discuss?

[Aquarius]

Pretty much anything I would regard as a "mistake" on Trip's part has already been covered. All too often he missed opportunities to "right" things with T'Pol because he was either saving face, protecting his own heart, or just making assumptions about how she felt and reacting to misinformation.

Then there are the opportunities he missed because he thought he was doing the right thing and protecting her, letting her do what she thought she needed to do. And I really can't fault him for that.

So, with that in mind, I'd actually rather invite someone else to jump in, with any fresh perspectives on where any ball-droppage on Trip's part might have occurred.

[WarpGirl]

Cogenitor? Just a thought. I'm off to finsh my prompt entery now.

[Aikiweezie]

Cogenitor? Just a thought. I'm off to finsh my prompt entery now.

I HATED that episode!!!!!! Even though I love Trip and seem to understand where he is coming from I thought his behavior in that eopisode was just plain stupid Not even just naive - STUPID.