T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[Asso]

...CT and JB were natural for each other. Like William Powell and Myrna Loy. They clicked...."

Never I had this thought, but actually this simile is fitting like a glove.

[Silverbullet]

Watched "Breaking the Ice" again last night. Couple things:

At the end of episode it was clear that T-Pol had elected to stay on Enterrise. If she were leaving she would have had to tell Archer she ws leaving to get married and that she would
not be returning. she would not have to refer to the letter other than to say it was a
reminder of her wedding Plans. So it would be Archer who would be saying "I suppose you are all packed" also, when Vanik the Captain of the T-Mir was asking it hee was naythi tg else he could do he probably would say "sub-commander are you ready to Board T-Mir" so
T-Pol had already mae her decision. What she probably had NOT decided was to inform the Parents. Probably going to let her actions speak for her.

When Trip asked her if she was packed that spurred to send off a letter to the Parents. What would she say in the letter? Kiss Off, I'm not coming back now or ever to marry your son? Or please postpone any plans until I am ready to get married Koss can handle his Pon Farr alone? Or most liky Break the Behtrothal. I will not be returning to marry Koss, ever. Find him another bride.

I guess then that the slice of Pecan pie symbolized her decison to cut ties to the Parents and Koss.

[WarpGirl]

<Deep breaths> Hey Silverbullet sorry for being incomunnicado but you know computers they have personality issues just like people. I don't see why you think T'Pol neither informed her parents of her decision and broke off contact. I thought she sent a letter home with Vanik because it would have been faster that transmitting from Enterprise. At least that's what I remembered. And I know she kept writing to T'Les after because she mentions it in Home. And no I still havent seen it yet ENT just started over two days ago in season one on SYFY. I'm really irritated about that.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, welcome back!!!. Been so long that Ihave forgotten my train of thought.

The message she sent through the T-mir had to go to the Parents. T-Pol must have told them one option or the other. However, in the series it seems that she forced them to break off the bethrothal because sshe was determined to remain on Enterprise.

Her agreement to give Trip Neuro-pressure sessions and later in Harbiner Seducing him certainly suggests that she believed her engagement to Koss had been ended.

BTW, I will gone for a month vising relatives.

[WarpGirl]

Well I agree she believed she was a free woman but that didn't make it so. Vulcans of ENT era have a tendency of leaving out huge chunks of important information. I always thought the parents said We need this marriage but it isn't necessary yet because Pon Farr hasn't come. We'll keep silent and allow her to continue on her career until a time comes when it cannot be put off. Anyway there was no evidence that she cut her parents out of her life completely before Home. Otherwise why go back to Vulcan at all?

[Silverbullet]

"She told Trip in "Breaking the Ice" that the parents were insulted that she chose to remain on enterprise rather than come back to vulcan for the marriage cere4mony and that if she didn't come back right away they were ending the thing.

She didn't cut herrself of from T-Les. Although certainly T-Les shoulld have been informed of the cancellation of the marriage ceremonty and my inference the bethrothal.

Since T-Pol insisted to Trip in Breaking the Ice that her traditons were important to her if that is so she would still be bound by her bethrrothal if she believed it still existed. She obviously did not and must have had good reason for that.

[WarpGirl]

That was Koss' parents not hers. There was nothing to indicate she either wanted or needed to cut ties to her family at that point.

[Silverbullet]

Agree. She did not cut ties to T-Les. Still believe that T-Les must have been informed of the breaking of the engagement. which is why I always suspected that T-Les was in league with Koss to coerece t-Pol into the marriage. T-Les lied like Hell in Home.

BTW, am writing and have a real maudlin story running around in my head. Not sure if I am going to do anything with it.

[WarpGirl]

Not going ther until I've seen Home you just wait until I do MR.

[Silverbullet]

Believe you may have missed Home but it will come around again. there is alisting of Scifi channel broadcast which could tell you when it wil be shown again.

[WarpGirl]

Please do kill me for bringing this topic back up but something hit me today and I can't get it out of me head. This is from the "Classic Rock" thread and dear honeybee said this...

I don't think a Vulcan would think of it as "loving" music, though a human would see it that way. We just know she's "drawn to it" because of the chaotic nature of the improvisations. It clearly evokes some kind of emotional reaction for her, which she also fears.

It might take awhile, but I can see her downloading and listening to pieces here and there as she gets used being among humans. Although, she might stop for at least awhile after Fusion due to bad memories. I'm sorry they never reference her love of jazz during Damage because, well jazz and addiction go to together like chocolate and peanut butter.

I can picture her listening to jazz in her quarters, alone. I don't think she'd do it publicly, because it does represent something that she views as dangerous and/or shameful. Given the respectability jazz has in our culture, that is something that humans would not get.

So, is jazz Vulcan emotion pornography? I can see her listening to it, but doing it very privately.

It would be interesting to see T'Pol invited to a jazz concert with Trip or even Archer, given that she sees the music as un-respectable. Also, I do think she would like Billie Holliday, but I think all that pain in Lady Day's voice would make her uncomfortable, too. She wouldn't want others to see her enjoying it. (lightbulb goes off for story).

This goes back to the idea that T'Pol is a rebel and such... I think most people here look at T'Pol and only take into consideration the time in which she lives to pick her character apart. I don't. Because Vulcans have been around much longer than the series. Take this thing with the music, as honeybee also said Vulcans love music. And in this time period other Vulcans wouldn't approve of her openly enjoying music. But look at the hypocrisy. The so called "traditional Vulcans" still choose the food they enjoy, the clothes they wear, and other things that they enjoy. Choosing Music, food, and what to drink isn't really rebeling against anything.

For me T'Pol isn't someone who wants to reject her heritage and values. She's someone who doesn't believe that the Vulcan attitude of holding themselves apart lest they become corrupted by emotional spieces is wrong. That is her issue. I still say that she had no problem with having an arranged marrige in Breaking The Ice. It was the fact that it was the wrong time. And if she hadn't fallen in love with Trip I'm sure she wouldn't have objected to an arranged marrige at a convenient time.

For me T'Pol is like Jazz incorperating many different things and influences while still retaining it's own heritage, idenities, and values. That's why I was so happy that she is a Jazz fan. Like Surak says, "We have differences, May we together, become greater than the sum of both of us." So for me apart from one incedent, I see her as a rather tradtional Vulcan whoes dialog was sometimes badly written.

[honeybee]

I see T'Pol struggling in the same way that many ex-patriots struggle. Most ex-patriots choose to live in a foreign country because they crave adventure and are curious about a new culture. Once they get there, they adopt some of the traits of that culture by way of adaptation, but that doesn't mean they are "less than" what they used to be.

I didn't like it when T'Pol appeared to want to be human. To me, she was always a Vulcan - just a Vulcan whose emotions were closer to the surface than other Vulcans - assuming there is a spectrum of normal among Vulcans - and one that's thus more open.

I also think mainstream Vulcans would be less accepting of her openness to humanity, which is not the same thing as desire to be human, because they are by nature more rigid. I didn't like the episode The Seventh very much, but I do like that the idea that T'Pol was not alone in being caught up in another culture. In fact, she did better that the guy who went native in that story.

[Aikiweezie]

I see T'Pol struggling in the same way that many ex-patriots struggle. Most ex-patriots choose to live in a foreign country because they crave adventure and are curious about a new culture. Once they get there, they adopt some of the traits of that culture by way of adaptation, but that doesn't mean they are "less than" what they used to be.

I didn't like it when T'Pol appeared to want to be human. To me, she was always a Vulcan - just a Vulcan whose emotions were closer to the surface than other Vulcans - assuming there is a spectrum of normal among Vulcans - and one that's thus more open.

I also think mainstream Vulcans would be less accepting of her openness to humanity, which is not the same thing as desire to be human, because they are by nature more rigid. I didn't like the episode The Seventh very much, but I do like that the idea that T'Pol was not alone in being caught up in another culture. In fact, she did better that the guy who went native in that story.

Well put! I never thought of it that way before!

[WarpGirl]

Where have you been honeybee? I've been trying to say that since April. And I've never been able to articulate it.

[honeybee]

Where have you been honeybee? I've been trying to say that since April. And I've never been able to articulate it.

Thanks.

In my story Family Secrets, T'Pol meets a Vulcan intelligence officer who has been living on a DS9-like station for decades. Like her, he's found a non Vulcan mate and he's developed a drug addiction. But he's in far less control than she is and still actively using. He's shady. But both of them are still Vulcan. T'Pol looks down on him, but then realizes most mainstream Vulcans would view her exactly as she views him.

I created him specifically because I wanted to show that T'Pol's problems adjusting to life among off-worlders were not unique. In fact, she handles the temptations well - kicking her habit, finding a supportive mate and still maintaining her Vulcan-ness.