Name your favorite scene and why!

[panyasan]

I don't know any.

[WarpGirl]

See now if you a very good story teller can't manage to think of one I don't feel nearly so stupid.

[Alelou]

You don't think T'Pol is the Queen of Denial, then? Because I do. Throughout the series, from beginning to end. It's very consistent.

I don't think she necessarily realized what she was doing would hurt Trip that much, though. Then again, I totally think Trip is on to her before that scene is out. Those two have their own little dance.

[panyasan]

Well, it's hard for me to write anything coherent at this moment, with two energetic kids running around and the phone ringing. Until I find a quieter moment.

[Kotik]

:happyjump: So much for bowing out gracefully, but I did say it was an attempt. Also the whole jealousy thing is really a recipy for disaster. Add Trellium and well... BTW Kotik welcome and you ROCK! Sorry I forgot to say welcome sooner. Hey Panysan, what explanation can possibly be used that turns them into responsible rational adults in command poisitions on a starship?

One has to go out of one's way to make sense of it, but I came up with some ideas.

• She in fact is curious about the human concept of erotic, because vulcan mating is nothing but going all swivel-eyed every seventh year in an endless series of wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am mating.
• She steps out of the robe, because she learned that humans put much importance on visual stimulation and she knows, she's not exactly ugly, so it's time to test the waters.
• Instead of all the way. they do a good tongue-wrestling coupled to maybe a nice grope 'n lick of some sensitive body parts
• The next morning she tries her hand at what humans refer to as teasing, but get's it horribly wrong. Seeing that it doesn't yield the expected reaction she's mightily confused
• The look she gives him after he says that that doesn't mean the end of their NP session could hint at being glad that he says that, as she can't riddle out why she made such a monkeys breakfast of her attempt at yanking his chain.

[WarpGirl]

Nope Alelou I don't believe it's denial I think it's the irrational belief that she as a Vulcan woman CANNOT believe she will be the proper partner for a human male. Until the bond she has no reason to think she can care for his needs. It's a messy situation to deal with. OK Kotik I'm confused.

[Aikiweezie]

The fact that they had sex can't be dismissed. T'Pol refers to their sexual relations more than once. The possibility of her having been pregnant is discused. It was spelled out - clearly - several times. It is vital to the way their relationship forms. What can be questioned is how many times and when. Many people, like myself, think that the writers made it obvious that it wasn't just a one time thing. See my earlier post as to why.

No one is saying it that it was a great idea. Obviously, things went too quickly. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens all the time and people have the consequences to deal with.

We all bring our own perspectives and moral viewpoints into this, yes. For some people, sex isn't always about love and romance. Sometimes sex precedes love and sometimes it's the other way around. And sometimes people just make dumb mistakes. I don't necessarily think what happened in "Harbinger" was a mistake, but I do think it was premature.

I don't think T'Pol meant to hurt Trip - and I agree with Alelou - these two are involved in a "thing" as Trip calls it, and until they are finally honest with each other things are kind of screwed up!

[Kotik]

OK Kotik I'm confused.

You're not alone. In my current story, I think I've managed to find some things to make sense of several little pet pieves I have with the series, like

• Why does she run arund in these ridiculous catsuites
• the scene from harbinger, how can I 'erase' the roll in the hay
• Giving T'Pau a more bearable character. (I deliberately left out the T'Pau from TOS. My story deliberately shows canon the finger)
• Getting rid of the 'Super!' part of Archer. He bends his knees when he takes a crap, like all other humans as well.

I have a lot of back references to the TV episodes. To establish all the facts, that there was no rutting in 'Harbinger' I had to write 4 Chapters + Prolog. In MS Word, that's somewhat around page 190, when it becomes clear that they didn't 'mate' credibly. I used some of the ideas I outlined in my previous post.

[WarpGirl]

That's not what I meant. My question was this was your post trying to explain what actually happened or not? And the accepted explanation for the catsuits is that they keep her warm.

[Kotik]

That's not what I meant. My question was this was your post trying to explain what actually happened or not? And the accepted explanation for the catsuits is that they keep her warm.

My post was trying to explain, why she reacted like she did in the mess hall. From the script it came out of the blue and didn't fit the happenings of the evening before. Scriptwise it was just a hideous tool to reestablish that angst shit, they've been stuffing down our throat all through series 3 and 4. I'm trying to continue the story of TnT after Terra Prime withour trying to 'erase' anything that was shown on-screen (other than *the_abomination*, that's just being ignored ) So I'm doing the spin-doctor and reinterpret several things.

[WarpGirl]

More fun that way anyhow. Like I said I prefer the nuropressure scenes (gratuitous though they are) work scenes, and Vulcan vs human thought patterns debates. The actually mean something.

[WarpGirl]

The fact that they had sex can't be dismissed. T'Pol refers to their sexual relations more than once. The possibility of her having been pregnant is discused. It was spelled out - clearly - several times. It is vital to the way their relationship forms. What can be questioned is how many times and when. Many people, like myself, think that the writers made it obvious that it wasn't just a one time thing. See my earlier post as to why.

No one dismissed the fact that they had sex. But it's stated that BEFORE Bound they only had sex ONCE.

[Aikiweezie]

Kotik, I must be misunderstanding you. You're writing an "AU," "alternative universe story, yes? A story where your "pet peeves" don't happen?

That very different than arguing canon which is what I have been doing.

[alt_Toza]

*takes deep breath as prepares to jump in and possibly get shot*

I think it went 'all the way'. And I think Trip's "REALLY, love?" 'are you sure' moment came when she'd just kissed him and he was staring at her like she'd just told him she was actually Andorian in disguise. I think the shock on his face was half a 'no way, really?' moment and half a 'are you yanking my chain or are you really going for it because you want it to be like this?' And then, bless him, he probably remembered that, as others here have pointed out, Vulcans don't really go for preamble. And she certainly seemed very sure of what she wanted.

Besides, if she was simply doing an experiment sex-wise (or didn't want to end the mission a virgin, arf arf) then who better to use? He'd proved himself discrete in the past, and she probably wouldn't have realised she was breaking a heart of gold, seeing as he had only admitted to being "a little" jealous, not raging find-him-and-kill-him jealous (er... if he hadn't been dead already...). Would she even realise he might have just been playing down what he felt?

I think that was what hurt the most (for me!) the next morning - her hiding behind her mug, pretending it was all just for science. And the look on his face at the 'I don't follow' moment, when his face is just sagging in that horrible, horrible sinking feeling of 'I've been had'-ness. Before the conversation, when he comes in and he's still getting his coffee, his nervousness is palpable and I really really felt so much empathy/fondness/pride/nice one!/aww/-- something for him, and hoped it was all about to kick off somehow.

And then she dropped a planet on his head and I think he realised that the night before he'd been taken for a ride, used under false pretences. It sure looked like he was trying to move things forward and was desperate to find out what she wanted to do about it at breakfast. (I know most blokes I've slept with have been advised by their dads at one time or another to go with what the lady wants - and Trip's a gent, most of the time.) And then, as has probably happened to a few of us here (I know it's happened to me) what you thought they were going to say and what they actually come out with are lightyears apart and you feel about half an inch tall.

Poor bugger. I felt it was downright mean of her to pretend that it meant nothing, even if it was an 'experiment' and they were Writers Without Logic . So when he said "Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuropressure though", I was smiling a very evil smile and thinking, "Yeah, let's see how you do living with the aftermath you created, b*tch." Even though I like T'Pol!

So when he finally got one over on her in Bound, forcing her to 'fess up about wanting 'him' back, and then finally making her mad enough to kiss him just to prove a point, I thought it only fair he brush her off like that, telling her what she had just done hadn't swayed him at all because he'd already asked for the return transfer three days ago. Was I the only one licking my finger and scoring one point to Trip in the air just then, chuckling an ee-vil chuckle, saying 'How d'you like them apples?'

GAAAH. Some writers should be repeatedly jabbed with a cattle prod till they stop setting up a very interesting angle for two very popular characters, before writing themselves out of it again. They might as well as had T'Pol coming out of the shower and realising it had all been a dream. BAH.

*gets up and makes cup of tea. Sits down and relaxes*

Anyway, what I wanted to say was: Favourite scenes. Got two:

Fave: In Harbinger when T'Pol is telling Trip novices shouldn't be doing neuropressure, and he says he's done it on her hundreds of times... and then gets that look on his face and asks if she'd like to 'supervise' he and Amanda. Oh Trip, you really were asking for spanking with that line.

And very, very close second:
When T'Pol did her "having Orion girls in charge shows every species has positive attributes" line, and Archer says perhaps she's picked up some of Trip's bad habits: the way Trip laughed out loud, looking away. There was just something about that laugh, like it should have been a blooper but didn't get cut out.


Carry on, people. Ignore or smack me. I'm waiting for it.

[WarpGirl]

I will neither ignore or smack you but that entire summery summs up why I HATE Harbinger! The whole thing was a mess that didn't make any sense.