Major Rant : Angst

[Asso]

Frankly I love Dinah's work simply because it's beautiful. And respectful. And made only for the pleasure of being written and of being enjoyed. But, above all, it's BEAUTIFUL. I repeat it, and surely angst is not its background.
And it's beautiful. I don't care of further motivations.

[WarpGirl]

Well I can't speak for her, but as a writer I hope people care about my motivations because if they don't I'm wasting my time.

[Asso]

If people enjoy your job, your time wasn't wasted, in no case. Well. Probably it's also necessary that the writer himself enjoys his own job.

[Aquarius]

Well I can't speak for her, but as a writer I hope people care about my motivations because if they don't I'm wasting my time.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE A STANDING OVATION SMILEY???????

I'll have to settle for a few of these:

Okay, so that was like ten. Any way...

Motivation is KEY to creating believable characters that the reader can CARE about. It is also my belief that it's especially important when writing characters based on someone else's creation, as in fanfic, because these characters have an established way of speaking, behaving, relating to other characters, etc., and your readers are going to have certain expectations based on that. If the motivations are overly simplistic (unless, of course, the character has been established to have a simplistic personality), in conflict with what's already been presented on the show (unless this has been adequately explained by the author), or just plain nonexistent (no excuses here, just shame on the author), I generally won't waste my time reading that author's work any more, because there just isn't enough there to get me intellectually or emotionally invested in the piece and I often feel like I'm reading a soap opera instead of a Trek story. Everything just comes off as one- (or at best, two-) dimensional without proper motivation.

[WarpGirl]

Well as I'm not getting paid money (good thing because I don't want to go to prison) I like to get paid knowing I am reaching people with my ideas. To do that they need to care about my motivations. But technically this isn't a job.

Wow I made Aquarius happy. It's been a while.

[Alelou]

I get the feeling you guys are talking about two different motivations, though. WG is talking about her personal motivation for writing and Aquarius is talking about the characters' motivations? Or did I get that wrong?

But please do enjoy being on the same page!

I'm off. I want to see the Georgia OKeefe exhibit in Williamstown before it leaves.

[Aquarius]

Well, there is probably a little bit of both going on, but backing up a little to the remarks made by yourself and Dinah and others that led us to this point, it appears that it's the characters' actions and motivations that are being discussed, so I assumed that was the line of discussion.

[Asso]

I get the feeling you guys are talking about two different motivations, though. WG is talking about her personal motivation for writing and Aquarius is talking about the characters' motivations? Or did I get that wrong?

On the other hand,I was talking about the simple enjoyment for the writing.

[honeybee]

One of the most fun things about writing fanfic, to me, is ascribing motivations to the characters that fit with what I think is onscreen. I especially like jumping off from events/scenes that I enjoyed but I also like explaining contradictions or what I believe are goofs by the writers. It's a fun challenge.

I also think that in prose you have the opportunity to get inside a character's head in the way that you don't in scripted drama, and that's satisfying, too. And when you are writing post-Bound TnT- you get the added bonus of two characters who are inside each other's heads - and all that that entails.

If I can write the characters in a way that is true to what other people see and feel about them, that is very rewarding.

[WarpGirl]

I agree, but I get a real kick out of things when people get what I'm saying when I create these characters motivations. Self absorbed? I hope not. But maybe a little teeny bit of an ego boost. Just a little one.

[panyasan]

I just came back from a great weekend to find lots of good stuff on TRIS.

Actually, and I know I'm a minority, I think that her behaviour in "Daedalus" was far from being cold. Yes, she pushes Trip aside, but she tells him what's happening. I take it as a proof of her emotional maturing. Before that, she wouldn't have talked to him, she simply would have avoided him and made him feel miserable without a word. She's trying to deal with some really difficult stuff and she isn't ready to add a romantic relationship to that. That's honesty, more than coldness.

On the other hand, it's Trip the one who acts in a (somewhat) wrong way. He tells her he understands it. Obviously he doesn't and he's hurt, but he doesn't tell her that. He says "OK, don't worry, I'm cool with it" and T'Pol believes him. And why not? She trusts him. It's like... please, men in the board, don't take ofense... It's like when a woman and a man argue and the woman has some hid issue but she tells him "I'm not hurt" and he says "Oh, OK" because, you know, men aren't telepaths.

It's curious how it's men the ones who doesn't like angst very much. Perhaps emotional problems aren't their thing.

I totally agree. When T'Pol bring the message, she speaks softly, she brings the message gently and she has her eyes cast down. She doesn't like what she is going to say. I think that honesty is one of the core characters traits of T'Pol, to the extent that she can jugde herself strictly - so in a way I am glad she shows this honesty now towards Trip.

I think you hit the nail when it comes to why males don't like angst, because emotional problems are not their thing. Frankly, I do sometimes think women make things too complicated (including me ) while men are down to earth, looking to solve the problem. (not saying that they don't have emotions.) Guess live wouldn't be much fun if we hadn't two kind of humans.

[Asso]

...I think you hit the nail when it comes to why males don't like angst, because emotional problems are not their thing. Frankly, I do sometimes think women make things too complicated (including me ) while men are down to earth, looking to solve the problem. (not saying that they don't have emotions.) Guess live wouldn't be much fun if we hadn't two kind of humans.

[panyasan]

... (I noticed that male writers mostly take this road and are mostly much kinder toward T'Pol.)...

Well! If you know the males at least a little bit, you can wholly understand the reason!

Eeehh... I don't know exactly what you mean. I understand that men like to look at a beautiful women and maybe take more slack from a nice looking women then the one who is not so pretty.
BUT in the end, men and woman want the same. Men are looking for intimicy as well, to get close to some one and when a women doesn't give him love and respect, no matter who pretty or sexy she is, most men would walk away in the end. So maybe this because most men are somewhat kinder toward women in general, while women really can tear other women apart.

[Asso]

... (I noticed that male writers mostly take this road and are mostly much kinder toward T'Pol.)...

Well! If you know the males at least a little bit, you can wholly understand the reason!

Eeehh... I don't know exactly what you mean. I understand that men like to look at a beautiful women and maybe take more slack from a nice looking women then the one who is not so pretty.
BUT in the end, men and woman want the same. Men are looking for intimicy as well, to get close to some one and when a women doesn't give him love and respect, no matter who pretty or sexy she is, most men would walk away in the end. So maybe this because most men are somewhat kinder toward women in general, while women really can tear other women apart.

You are kinder than me. Towards men.

[panyasan]

Eeehh... I don't know exactly what you mean. I understand that men like to look at a beautiful women and maybe take more slack from a nice looking women then the one who is not so pretty.
BUT in the end, men and woman want the same. Men are looking for intimicy as well, to get close to some one and when a women doesn't give him love and respect, no matter who pretty or sexy she is, most men would walk away in the end. So maybe this because most men are somewhat kinder toward women in general, while women really can tear other women apart.

You are kinder than me. Towards men.

Blame it on my husband.