Major Rant : Angst

[WarpGirl]

Amen Amen Amen Amen. Have people seen what others put CSI ships through? Bones? SG-1? We have it soooo easy. My first fandom Knights of the Old Republic, well you would not believe what they put all the ships through, and there are like twenty potential ships to torture. And some people are so immanture I physically want to scream at the top of my lungs. Really here at TriS we have it good.

[Silverbullet]

Hi, I am in California nw.

Angst. I you had to deal with a great lot of angst in your life you might not want to read it in Fiction. After all fiction is esapism (sP) I am tryhng to leartn to write and Angst is not easy to write as fluff. My work life was in the Diplomatic Corps. Although it is termed a bunch of "Cooki e Pushers" that is hardly the case. Lots of angst (fear) in the profression. So, I don't like to read it and hope I can handle it in writing.

Re Acher, my biggest grip about him was his constant I, My attitude. He never used We or Our It was always I have to save the world not we (eanng the entire crew of Enterprise) havvve to save the world although it was the entire crew who helped destory the Xindi weapon and the rest of it. The writer snever gave any of the oher members of the crew any credit for their actions. Archer in my estimatin was a poor Officer and commander. I could never understand the loyalty given him.

[WarpGirl]

True I mean my life is no picnic. But to tell you the truth I deal with it better when I read, watch, or hear entertainment with people being happy in spite of the angst that life inevitably throws at you.

[Asso]

Asso I wish life could be full of laughter and good things always but it's not. It's a teeter totter balancing between good and bad. Hopefully there's enough good to help one get through the bad. I write about the hardships of TnT's bond because it's what I see as being real. It's what my experience has taught me that life is about. Love, laughter, pain, sorrow, conflict, angst, fear and all the rest. I read comedy and fun stuff to relieve stress and to feel good but reading and writing about conflict and angst helps me and others to deal with our own emotional selves better. I can't let out all that I feel or I'd risk hurting people in my life so I put it on paper or I release some of the internal pressure by feeling a character's pain/angst when I read a story. I do the same when I listen to music. I tend to sing (loudly) to the music I listen to and that tends to release pent-up emotions. It's a coping mechanism and fortunately it's one that can produce some pretty creative works for the rest of us to enjoy.

You know I love your stories. There is no angst in them. Believe me.

[WarpGirl]

OK Now I am confused you do know that TnT go through some pretty hard things in them right? I mean I love them too, but there is a lot of pain there. So Asso, what do you actually think angst is?

[pdsldl]

Escriba the bad writers you describe are writing soap operas. Their characters bang their heads against the wall and keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and no matter how evil or twisted they or their lives are they end up happy and content. NOT. Many of these writers also are guilty of building up the angst and then suddenly rushing to the happily ever after without explanation or laying the proper groundwork for it. If they wrote original fics it wouldn't be so bad but in these fandoms they are writing with established characters and they lack the respect and/or talent to maintain the integrity of the characters they supposedly love.

Silverbullet My life has many conflicts and angst galore and I do look for good happy things to relieve my stress but then there's those days when it's all too much and it helps to read or watch someone else having trouble. Some days it because I can relate and it makes it better to realize my problems aren't unique or that others problems are worse so I should just suck it up and get on with it or it allows me to feel all the bad feelings and sometimes it to let myself get inside with the characters and cry or to let out my own emotions in a safe, productive way. Maybe not the way everyone deals but it works for me.

Asso Thanks I think. I see angst in my stories but not the teenage angst Escriba was talking about. Angst is what our teens are all about. I don't think you can get through life, especially in a romantic relationship without some angst, which I see as intense anxiety, strife or insecurity at some point.

[Asso]

OK Now I am confused you do know that TnT go through some pretty hard things in them right? I mean I love them too, but there is a lot of pain there. So Asso, what do you actually think angst is?

In FF? The deliberate choice to search for anguish, believing that it can reflect real life. The deliberate choice to search for hurting images and hurting plots, believing that it can reflect real life.
The deliberate will to get harsh, to write harsh, to think harsh, justifying all that with the simplistic idea that you are doing that because you want to render the real life.
And trying always to find a balance which Real Life doesn't have.

[WarpGirl]

Um the deliberate search of bad things happening... Is that what you mean? But in life bad things do happen. Also with fandoms, bad things happen to the characters and you have to deal with them.

[Asso]

Um the deliberate search of bad things happening... Is that what you mean? But in life bad things do happen. Also with fandoms, bad things happen to the characters and you have to deal with them.

I give up.
Probably I'm unable to make people understand me.
Only, think of that "DELIBERATED".

[Escriba]

What I think he means is plots like "Let's torture Trip" or "How nice would it be to rape T'Pol and have Trip watching it?" or such. Asso is not a Tarantino fan

I think that's a little limiting. Not for a reader, as Silverbullet said, perhaps you don't like to read about some things because you simply don't like them. But for an author... yes, very self-limiting. I want to write a story, censorship isn't going to help. And yes, I know that's not exactly what Asso meant, but avoiding being harsh is as bad as deliberately being one. By the way, how do you know if the author is doing it deliberately, and it's not just Narrative Logic?

Escriba the bad writers you describe are writing soap operas. Their characters bang their heads against the wall and keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and no matter how evil or twisted they or their lives are they end up happy and content. NOT. Many of these writers also are guilty of building up the angst and then suddenly rushing to the happily ever after without explanation or laying the proper groundwork for it. If they wrote original fics it wouldn't be so bad but in these fandoms they are writing with established characters and they lack the respect and/or talent to maintain the integrity of the characters they supposedly love.

*Nod, nod* Yes, yes, those. Horrible writers. Not like I'm perfect, you know, but some people just overdo it.

[panyasan]

Um the deliberate search of bad things happening... Is that what you mean? But in life bad things do happen. Also with fandoms, bad things happen to the characters and you have to deal with them.

I give up.
Probably I'm unable to make people understand me.
Only, think of that "DELIBERATED".

Do you mean by deliberated, that kind of angst that makes T'Pol acts like she doesn't love Trip or pushes Trip away so many times for some stupid reason and let them both suffer horrible and give some quick, not realistic happy end and all the way you imagine the writer grinning while he or she writes and musing "I am going make them suffer." and you think "does the writer even like T'Pol and Trip (together)?

[Escriba]

Ah, that could be too

[Asso]

...I think that's a little limiting. Not for a reader, as Silverbullet said, perhaps you don't like to read about some things because you simply don't like them. But for an author... yes, very self-limiting. I want to write a story, censorship isn't going to help. And yes, I know that's not exactly what Asso meant, but avoiding being harsh is as bad as deliberately being one. By the way, how do you know if the author is doing it deliberately, and it's not just Narrative Logic?

Narrative Logic? I have to remember that.

[pdsldl]

[.

that kind of angst that makes T'Pol acts like she doesn't love Trip or pushes Trip away so many times for some stupid reason and let them both suffer horrible and give some quick, not realistic happy end and all the way you imagine the writer grinning while he or she writes and musing "I am going make them suffer." and you think "does the writer even like T'Pol and Trip (together)?[/quote]

Read way too many of these stories. I think you have it right. There's a difference between characters facing realistic challenges and some of the let's see how much pain and anguish we can heap on them and then to make it all better we'll let them go off and make mad passionate love or have endless mindless sex and we're done.

And Asso it's nice to finally understand where you're coming from. We've talked about our different approaches before and I always just saw the Italian romantic poet side to you but now I see a whole different side I didn't understand before.

[Asso]

Thank you. I think, someway, we speak the same language.
Approaches can be different, but this doesn't mean we can't see things under the same sun.