Major Rant : Angst

[Escriba]

Sincerely, I don't know what we're talking about anymore. Can't an author write about tragic things because they happen? Or are we talking about something else?

Because frankly, what an assaulted woman needs is support, sharing her story with somebody who can understand it and listening that she's not the only one. Silence is a punishment in itself. Feeling alone in this world is horrible. Knowing that you're not the only one who has suffered something like that helps.

As far as I'm concerned, I was refering to the cliché rape scenes or stories. In fact, I'll use the existance of this cliché in "Mirage" to give the readers the impression I'm going to do something that I won't (and no, I'm not giving away much by saying this.) After all, the setting could logically lead to it: Evil Orions, Trip and T'Pol in the same cell...

And this is the last thing I'm going to say on the matter. I think it's getting too personal.

[Silverbullet]

Escriba what you are decribing is a support group. Yes, they are sssential to recovery. Women can tell their story to others who have experienced the same thing and know they will receive the understanding and caring they need. That doesn ot mean, however, that hey want to broadcast publicy that they have undergone the horrors of Rape. Many women will not report a rape because they do not want it known that it has hapened to them besides the fear of the Rapist coming back if she tells her story to the police or the media. For many women the shame of the Rape compels them to silence. I have even heard that some try to hide it from their families and Husbands. That would be hard to do in most cases because of the violence that accompanies such an attack.

You say that writers should not hide from writing about this it is reality. Well I have seen reality raw and I could not write it down for alll of the money in the world. There are some things that are reality that do not necessirly need to be written. I doubt that there are many who do not know that rape exists and know someting about it. But people do not need their nose rubbed in it.

I guess I am over the top on this but I absolutely hate the subject.

[Asso]

... Because frankly, what an assaulted woman needs is support, sharing her story with somebody who can understand it and listening that she's not the only one. Silence is a punishment in itself. Feeling alone in this world is horrible. Knowing that you're not the only one who has suffered something like that helps...

I don't think this issue has something to do with fancfiction. We aren't whispering in silence. Quite the contrary, we are speaking aloud.
We are talking about one of the most horrible things of the world.
Every writer who approaches this sort of matter, has to do that on tiptoe.

[WarpGirl]

OK I think the major thing is some people think it's OK to write about the subject and some think it's wrong. Personally I don't think anybody has the right to tell an author what they can and cannot write about. If you don't like the story, don't read it. It's as simple as that.

Back on topic, there are also some terrible angst filled cliche's poor Trip has to deal with that I personally find irritating after reading about 100 of the same thing.

1. Trip near death

2. Trip and the alien seductress

3. Going into a nervous breakdown because T'Pol has been a you-know-what yet again

4. Trip's family hates T'Pol because she's Vulcan

After a while these things tend to blend together so badly that the good stories dealing with these things get drowned in the numerous poorly done ones.

[Kotik]

...
1. Trip near death

2. Trip and the alien seductress

3. Going into a nervous breakdown because T'Pol has been a you-know-what yet again

4. Trip's family hates T'Pol because she's Vulcan

After a while these things tend to blend together so badly that the good stories dealing with these things get drowned in the numerous poorly done ones.

On two accounts you're right about this - 2 and 3. With the bond established, Trip should be pretty much immune against any seduction. I think Kaitaama was the last person, who seduced him successfully, before his attraction to T'Pol became a full fledged love affair. The nervous breakdown thing well one can argue about it, but there's been enough of that in way too many stories. (Guilty as charged myself, although it was caused deliberately in my story)

about 1)
With Trip's unfortunate habit of getting abducted, beaten up, impregnented or whatever by everyone and his dog whenever he's on an away mission, the near death experience is just waiting to happen.

about 4)
I think it is more realistic to have his family react in a hesitant way. Maybe outright hate is too much, but you don't walk in and introduce her and all's well. You should have heard the sort of crap that I got from my family for bringing home a girl from another country. Trip walks in with a Missus from a different planet. There's bound to be misconceptions, apprehension and wariness.

[WarpGirl]

No you've got a point, but I think there are just too many of basically the same stories in the catagories. But come on he can't be the only person to be getting his tail beaten, bloodied, and bruised. And about his family, I just think that everytime I read a Trip's family doesn't approve stories the reactions are almost exactly the same. Same actions and events slightly different dialog.

[Aquarius]

Here's the thing:

Generally, fics are labeled in order to let you know what's in them. We try to be good about that here--I know at other sites you're not so lucky, but most of the time you're given a heads-up. So not to be overly simplistic or anything, but if you don't like angst, then it's usually easy enough to not read it. Conversely, if you don't like fluff, then don't read that.

As far as WarpGirl's point goes, I think that's more cliche avoidance than angst avoidance. And cliches are always best avoided. I think every fandom has its own go-to plot devices that make the readers on the more connoisseur end of the spectrum cringe. (In Star Wars, it's Leia Slaps Han. ) I think that's what people do when they don't know what else to do.

So yeah, WarpGirl's right. And I think we see so many of the same thing because it's so easy to do. Sure, there are a finite number of plots and plot devices when you really think about it, but still, the potential to do something really original with it always exists.

[WarpGirl]

Depends which SW you like to read Aquarius. Still, it can get irritating if all a person comes up with is... "oh let's have Trip at death's door so T'Pol can declare undying love" And most of the time he's nearly dead the same way! But let's face it sometimes Han deserves to be slapped.

[Kotik]

Depends which SW you like to read Aquarius. Still, it can get irritating if all a person comes up with is... "oh let's have Trip at death's door so T'Pol can declare undying love" And most of the time he's nearly dead the same way! But let's face it sometimes Han deserves to be slapped.

Well we're facing basically the same problem here that befell ENT. Almost all ideas have been done before in the other series'. So we were bound to get yet another possession Episode or whatever. Same goes for the stories. We have gazillions of 'em and the amount of ideas people can come up with are rather limited, especially if you're trying not to go AU.

[WarpGirl]

Look you can have the same concept and make it different. Unfortunately in ENT they didn't do that well, in fanfic... I don't mind if 200 people write about Trip nearly dying in a cave, BUT when 150 people write Trip nearly dies in a cave because a giant rock falls on his chest. We have a problem.

[Aquarius]

But let's face it sometimes Han deserves to be slapped.

Not when you've seen it 64,000 times.

At any rate, I don't mind when things get a little gritty here and there. Not to completely reopen a can for worms, but I found following the discussion about rape interesting. That particular issue is a slippery slope, even removing the POV arguments about whether it's "right" to write about it or not. There are two kinds of rape fic I absolutely cannot stand personally (and remember, this is just MY opinion): first, is the stuff that's written for titillation (gross! ), and second, is the Mary Sue working out her own problems. This is not meant to sound cold-hearted, and I'm not saying that it's wrong to use a personal experience as a point of reference. What I AM saying is that for me, it feels really, really awkward when you went to distract yourself from reality by reading some fic and it becomes obvious you're reading another person's cheap therapy. You feel really bad for them, but at the same time it's like "whoa...! "

On the other hand, I can watch something like Law & Order SVU, which deals with the subject matter all the time, and I'm fine with it because it's used to tell a compelling story where there are heroes trying to right a wrong and most of the time they catch and punish the bad guy at the end--but sometimes they don't, which is okay, too, because that's just life. So in terms of fanfic, if it's not done as a Trip- or T'Pol-bashing (ie, cliched and gratuitous angst and physical abuse) or a Mary Sue, I'm generally okay with it. Alelou's "The Locum" would be an example of what I'm okay with: I felt sympathy for the character it happened to, it was a situation that has been known to happen in real life (captured by the enemy), and the characters and the situation were developed well enough that I cared about what was going to happen next. It's a tough subject to handle and in the hands of a not-as-skilled writer it probably would've come off trite and clunky, but I think Alelou handled it quite well--the rape furthered the plot, the plot didin't exist to serve us the rape.

[Aquarius]

Well we're facing basically the same problem here that befell ENT. Almost all ideas have been done before in the other series'. So we were bound to get yet another possession Episode or whatever. Same goes for the stories. We have gazillions of 'em and the amount of ideas people can come up with are rather limited, especially if you're trying not to go AU.

Again, it's true that there are a finite number of plots and plot devices out there--any book on crafting plot will tell you this. So it's all in what you bring to the table and DO with it to keep it fresh that matters.

[WarpGirl]

That's exactly my point. And basically how I handled it in my own SW's fic. Not the same type of SW Aquarius is talking about though.

Hey Shakespere stole EVERY SINGLE ONE of his plots from something else. But when I read the same, "mom and Dad hate T'Pol and mom tires to get Trip another girl" 300 times and every single one of them feature a Pamela Anderson rival. I say ENOUGH!

[Kotik]

That's exactly my point. And basically how I handled it in my own SW's fic. Not the same type of SW Aquarius is talking about though.

Hey Shakespere stole EVERY SINGLE ONE of his plots from something else. But when I read the same, "mom and Dad hate T'Pol and mom tires to get Trip another girl" 300 times and every single one of them feature a Pamela Anderson rival. I say ENOUGH!

I actually found only one such story. I found it an interesting idea.

[Aquarius]

That's exactly my point. And basically how I handled it in my own SW's fic. Not the same type of SW Aquarius is talking about though.

Hey Shakespere stole EVERY SINGLE ONE of his plots from something else. But when I read the same, "mom and Dad hate T'Pol and mom tires to get Trip another girl" 300 times and every single one of them feature a Pamela Anderson rival. I say ENOUGH!

As I'm sure there's lots of kinds of Enterprise fanfic, I'm TnT-centric--just as I'm Han/Leia-centric in SW. So, once you've been through all the H/L archives, yeah, "Leia Slaps Han" is just tired. Now, if she slapped him for an entirely new reason and it was justified (waking him up after passing out, maybe? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I haven't seen THAT before in H/L), then I'd be able to hang with it.

So yeah. In terms of TnT...sure, I can buy that his parents may have a little bit of a problem with his relationship with her...they may be well-meaning, or maybe they're bigots, we don't know...but for many of us it's human nature to be wary of anything "different," and in all fairness, T'Pol is different. This is not what I would call a cliche, this is what I would call a "given circumstance" that's inherent in their situation--a look at the earliest attempts at interracial dating here in the U.S. will bear this out and serve as a realistic foundation upon which to build such a story.

--HOWEVER--

Yeah, the "let's fix Trip up with a nice Human girl so he'll forget all about the Vulcan chick" can get a little old.

So, again, it's all about what an author would DO with the given circumstances of people from two different races dating and mating that will make it either Masterpiece Theater or My Little Pony.