Vulcan Activities

[WarpGirl]

OK since there is such a debate on whether Vulcans learn to swim or are in fact allowed any personal choice in there recreation I did some research. And I found a few things, mainly here... http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/Vulcan_Leis ... Activities

Now call me crazy, but if Vulcans actually have words for two distinct forms of wrestling, Football (in all forms) baseball, and other sports, it seems to me they're allowed to do them.

[Aikiweezie]

And of course they practice martial arts. It was mentioned several times.

[WarpGirl]

Yeah well I think that some Vulcans also studies Martial Arts from other species (Tuvok did, and I think Spock). After all both humans and Klingons have distinct martial arts forms. So logically a Vulcan can learn just about anything from any other cultures Vulcans are in contact with. And it's a fact that they know doezens if not hundreads of other speices during ENT compared to humans. I guess my point is while the corrupt VHC tried to regiment Vulcan society, they still absorbed knowledge and culture from other places. So the whole idea of regimented activities to such an extreme is ludicrous.

[Linda]

I don't know where the Vulcan Language Institute got that list of Vulcan activities, but I will bet it is not from canon sources. Most likely canon is silent or very sketchy on Vulcan activities and how could it be more than that? We are talking about a whole planet here, even if the population is a lot more homogenious than humans. So for fan fiction writers, anything goes if you can make your readers see some logic in it.

[WarpGirl]

OK correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the VLI was mostly canon. I know for a fact Vulcans play baseball. There was a whole boring episode about it on DS9. That was the same one where they said Vulcans join the Academy wrestling team. I mean wrestling is far more violent than Baseball or swimming, and that's allowed. I think even Chakotay and Tuvok Boxed together on VOY. Boxing! So I truly don't understand how anyone can say Vulcans are homongonized any more than any other culture we have on Earth.

We all are slightly homogonized in the areas where we are born and raised. For example I grew up near (not in) the Hamptons, now I live in Vriginia but sometimes you can still tell I'm a New York girl.

[Aquarius]

I think that it is a misconception that just because a society develops words for another society's concepts and activities, that they likewise engage in those activities. For example, just because the Vulcans have figured out how the word "football" translates into their language, it doesn't mean that they play football, it just means they know what to call it in their own tongue. There are probably Human concepts and activities that simply don't translate, so they adopt the English word for it, as what happens between languages and cultures here on Earth.

Much of what is at the VLI doesn't come from canon--as in TV episodes and movies. Much of it comes from the novels, where authors invent words and concepts as necessary in order to tell their stories, and even fandom itself. The novels, while officially licensed, aren't canon, so even if an author like Jean Lorrah or Peter David says "Sure, Vulcans play foot ball, all the time," it's only "true" if you, the fan author, want to adopt that into your own universe and run with it. That's why I generally suggest that what you read at the VLI and even "official" websites be taken with a grain of salt because so much of it is taken from non-canonical sources so it conflicts with canon, and even itself, so as fans and fan authors, we have a lot more flexibility to create and invent and reason out than what we see at these sites--if one wants that flexibility.

Sites like that are handy for those situations where if you need a translation or a factiod but you don't want to put the time and trouble into reinventing the wheel and coming up with this stuff with yourself; all I'm saying is that no one should feel compelled to stick with what they see there if they don't agree with it, if it hasn't been seen in a TV episode or movie.

[WarpGirl]

You know I think the whole Books, movies, official guides, and everything like that should be canon. It's just a load of bull to say it isn't. Not you Aquarius, I'm referring to TPTB/

[Aquarius]

The problem with that is, TPTB didn't want to be bound by what any individual author came up with. They wanted the ultimate creative control with plot and character development whenever they developed a new episode, series, or movie. And you know what? They should. They didn't want any contradiction from the novelists, so if they just came up with a blanket rule of "these don't count," then the creators and producers are free to develop Star Trek as they see fit. Now, historically, this hasn't always been a good thing because, well, we've all seen ways that they've disappointed us fans, and many of the profic authors are talented and seem to have a better grip on what the fandom in general believes Star Trek SHOULD be...but at the same time, the need for structure and control is more than understandable. And you have to admit that for the most part, it was okay when Roddenberry himself was the one pulling all or most of the strings. You can't have a bunch of authors and screen writers and whoever else running willy-nilly in any direction they want and have it all be "right" and "canon." With as many Trek novels alone that were published, it would be a near-impossible task keeping every single author and every single novel on track so they all fit into the same framework.

There is a definite advantage to this as well. Consider the Star Wars novels: they're all designed to fit within the canonical framework, even though they're not canon, but that kind of makes it hard to skip any authors or series you don't like because then you miss part of the story arc--frustrating, even if you know you're going to find it disappointing. In Trek, since none of them "count," you're free to read only the authors and series you like.

And case in point about the VLI: while researching Vulcan words and phrases for "Body and Katra," I came across the Vulcan word for "premature ejaculation." Not. Canon. If it was, I missed THAT episode, and I sure hope someone will tell me which one it is and what season of DVDs to rent in order to see it. But honestly? I'm pretty sure they haven't covered that in the show...

[WarpGirl]

Sorry I still say it's a bunch of bull, it's stupid. And if that means calling GR stupid then I will. We already know GL is an idiot, he says Jedi freaquent brothals! How morally upstanding! The point is you can have structure and still have a system that makes sense for a fandom.
.

[Aquarius]

*shrug* Put yourself in the position of being the creator of such a hugely successful franchise. Now imagine THOUSANDS of people putting their fingers into your pie. Now imagine if you were obligated to follow what THEY said should happen to your creation.

My answer, if it was me: "Nuh-uh. I don't think so. My stuff 'counts', yours is 'for entertainment purposes only.'"

So go ahead and think it's stupid. Sure, it's inconvenient to the fans at times because it demands a certain degree of flexibility. But considering how much I'd love to BE like these guys, I understand completely. There's absolutely no way I'd canonize something that some other author came along and did, unless it's what I was paying them to do.

[Alelou]

Actually, PocketBooks has a whole ton of rules that ST authors have to follow to try to keep them roughly within canon (believe me, I know, I had a proposal rejected on that basis), but I agree with Aquarius anyway. For one thing, there are HUNDREDS of ST books out there. It's hard enough for these guys to maintain continuity on the episodes that actually AIR without also having to be responsible for a ton of books that they wouldn't have time to read even if they wanted to, which they wouldn't.

Having said that, if the Okudas or some of the other tech geeks who actually worked on that show did a guide that was based on what went on in the show, I would accept that as canon -- unless they're getting wild and speculating for the sheer joy or profit of it. (Jokes don't count.) For example, my son has a book called Ships of the Line that has many lovely paintings of ships that appeared on the show over the years, and probably also some that didn't. As I think I recall, it shows Columbia wrecked on the surface of some planet. But unless that's also mentioned in a show somewhere, I just wouldn't consider that canon.

[justTripn]

Ooo . . . I have that "Ships of the Line" book.

I have a question related to fanfic writing. What does T'Pol do in her free time? This is a major problem for fanfic writing. The usual fallback is to have her meditating in front of a candle, but that can't take more than an hour a day. Then what . . . ?

Reading, exercising, studying, drinking tea . . . . What else can we have her do off duty?

[panyasan]

Ooo . . . I have that "Ships of the Line" book.

I have a question related to fanfic writing. What does T'Pol do in her free time? This is a major problem for fanfic writing. The usual fallback is to have her meditating in front of a candle, but that can't take more than an hour a day. Then what . . . ?

Reading, exercising, studying, drinking tea . . . . What else can we have her do off duty?

Playing a game of Koh'tah? There is one fic where T'Pol is reading an dectective (and solves a crime). I can just imagine her doing that. Martial arts maybe also on her list of activities. One idea I had (and I dropped in the story) was that she like to paint and draw. Something artistic. My daughter of five really likes to paint (it's in the genes - greatgreatfather was a painter), so I find myself painting drawings side by side with her. It's really relaxing, your mind just stops and you focus on the colors and the lines you make. Also, Vulcans like art - at least T'Pols parents/family did (see Home.)

[Aquarius]

Actually, PocketBooks has a whole ton of rules that ST authors have to follow to try to keep them roughly within canon (believe me, I know, I had a proposal rejected on that basis), but I agree with Aquarius anyway. For one thing, there are HUNDREDS of ST books out there. It's hard enough for these guys to maintain continuity on the episodes that actually AIR without also having to be responsible for a ton of books that they wouldn't have time to read even if they wanted to, which they wouldn't.

Yeah, I knew that 'cause I've looked into it myself, but I was reluctant to bring it up for fear of confusing the issue more. The current list is still pretty much the same, but their idea of "preserving canon" is more like you can't kill off or marry off a main character unless it's undone by the end of the story, etc. But as far as maintaining continuity on issues like an author has the Enterprise at planet A on such-and-such a stardate, and six months later another author has it at Planet X doing something else...well, it's a logistical nightmare, which I think is the biggest reason they're not canonized.

The other rules seem to exist to force you into originality. For example,they don't want to see crutches and cliches like time travel, funky space disease of the week, etc.

[Alelou]

Yes, but it's annoying that the SHOWS could use all of those to their heart's content. You just end up with a smaller and smaller list of possible plots, and never mind how originally you might have executed them. I found it highly irritating that you couldn't do certain things with certain characters even if you undid it by the end.