Vulcans... to swim or not to swim?

[Asso]

Ah....
I don't know. Maybe... Trip? Oooops!

You dirty beggar!

Thanks!

I just thought I'd drop by and add my opinion. I agree with those before me that it wouldn't make sense to teach ALL Vulcans to swim. There isn't enough of a demand for it on a desert world. Also, if there ARE only a few small seas, the majority of the population would live quite some distance away, and getting them there would cost a bomb. I don't think that they'd build swimming pools (think evapouration) when there are other methods of excercise that work just as well. Teaching Vulcans who are going into service (such as T'Pol) how to swim does make sense, they need to be prepared for any eventuallity, including water.

Exactly, but - somehow - I'm inclined to think that Vulcans would tend to "avoid" these sort of "activities"

And obviously there has to be some water on Vulcan, as it's the key component to a planet sprouting life. But because it has enough to sustain its inhabitants it doesn't mean that there's a "lot" either. They've developed a third eyelid to shield them from Vulcan's sun and they've developed a tolerance to go without food or water for extreme periods of time...suggesting that they've spent most of their time on their planet's brutal, arid surface rather that frolicking in some underground pond in a cavern somewhere.

Exactly again.


I'm glad. The discussion is very interesting.
And it gave me some ideas. Yes. Some really interesting ideas.

[WarpGirl]

You know Asso Americans fell in love with pizza during and after WW2 but it would have never happened ifour cultures hadn't been in contact. Pizza was a novelty something that was completely forign to this country, but now it's in the top ten favorite foods of America. I'm not saying Vulcans have back yard pools and swimming becomes an obsession. All I'm saying is that when cultures interact there is going to be some mixing. Spock liked swimming and was very good at it. So logically I'd say he isn't an anomaly.

[honeybee]

Everyone is free to have their own sensibilities on this issue, but I think one point in the story I wrote that inspired this discussion that has been fogged up. T'Pol says all Vulcans learn to swim because it is an important survival skill, not because it is recreation.

I stand by that notion. I think an enlightened humanoid society would make it standard that all children learn to swim, even if floods and bodies of water are rare. I assume that they do exist on Vulcan, and I also assume that traveling off Vulcan and visiting other worlds is commonplace. The less familiar you are with water, the more crucial learning to swim is.

I think it should be standard that every school child pass a swimming test, frankly. It breaks my heart when I read that women did not survive the 2005 tsunami in as large numbers as men because girls in many of those countries are not taught to swim because it is viewed as improper. It's also true that when ferries go down in Indonesia, women and girls often drown in much larger numbers for the same reason.

So, in my head, Vulcans teach their kids to swim "just in case" they might need the skill someday. But I would imagine swimming for recreation isn't endemic to the culture. Though, I think it might appeal to Vulcans like T'Pol and Spock who spend time off world. It is a very efficient, logical form of exercise, after all. But I never said Vulcans do it for fun.

Anyway, my two sense. Swimming = Important Survival Skill

[WarpGirl]

I'm not sure where you live Honeybee but I agree. I grew up less than 1000 feet from a bay, and my grandfather had us all out on a boat as babies. I was swimming YEARS before I was walking. And it is a vital skill to have. And I truly believe that even if you do live in a desert, or a froxen tundra. You NEVER know where life can take you. Especially if your average life-span is MORE than 200 years.

[Asso]

Honeybee, I want to be clear. I started this thread because I have read many fics which were about this matter, and - also - it has to be TOTALLY clear that I enjoyed your story a great lot and your idea about Vulcan swimming perfectly logical.
Simply I have a different perception, and I was curious about what people could think.

You know Asso Americans fell in love with pizza during and after WW2 but it would have never happened ifour cultures hadn't been in contact. Pizza was a novelty something that was completely forign to this country, but now it's in the top ten favorite foods of America. I'm not saying Vulcans have back yard pools and swimming becomes an obsession. All I'm saying is that when cultures interact there is going to be some mixing. Spock liked swimming and was very good at it. So logically I'd say he isn't an anomaly.

Hey, WarlpGirl! Are you, by chance, comparing pizza with swimming? No way! Maybe Vulcans can dislike swimming, but pizza... NOT AT ALL!
Probably it's enough to take out sausage, in case it there's.

[honeybee]

No offense taken, Asso. I just wanted to make my original point clear, that's all!

To sum up: it's logical for anyone who can drown to learn to swim. LOL :Insert your own Malcolm joke here.

[WarpGirl]

Asso I'm curious did I explain it wrong or are you joking? Because if you're joking I'm laughing really hard.

Honeybee I think Malcolm does know how to swim, I'm not sure though. That's why I'm confused as to why he's so scared of drowning.

[honeybee]

You can know how to swim and have aqua-phobia. In fact, I have a friend who was paralyzing-ly afraid of the water and she learned to swim because, not despite of that. She never swam for fun, though.

I would imagine someone coming from a navy family would learn to swim as a child. I didn't read the book that explains why Malcolm fears the water - maybe his dad threw him in the deep end as a kid and he never recovered.

[enterprikayak]

My Dad threw me into False Creek. (Which is actually the ocean).

I know some of you come from Australia and California and whatnot, and swim in the ocean.

But here, even in the hottest part of the summer when temps get into the 90s you DO NOT SWIM IN THE WATER WITHOUT A WETSUIT. You can jump in, flail around, and then jump out, if you're crazy. You can wade in up to your calves, and then when they go numb you climb back out to sunburn on the beach. If you want regular swimming you go to a lake. They get toasty warm.

In fact, there are actually BIG HUGE 3' x 4' POSTERS in the malls in the summer, advertising, among other things like the Star Trek movie, or hair gel, the following:

COLD WATER KILLS.
WITH A FEW LITTLE FACTOIDS UNDERNEATH ABOUT HOW YOU CAN GET HYPOTHERMIA AND DIE IN MINUTES.

And the poster is a huge photo taken from deep under the water of a man with his face barely above the waves, and his body all limp and pale and dangling and dying under the dark water.

Nice, huh?

And my dear old dad just picked me up by an arm and a leg when I was a little 45 lb 6 year old and chucked me in while we were picnicking on the wharf. He thought it was soooo funny. And I thought it was soooooooooooooooooooooo not funny.

Guess Dad never read the artcle about the crewmember of a BC crab fishing boat who fell overboard while trying to hold a trap that was slipping off the boat. As the man entered the water, he let go of the trap and remained at the surface. Crewmembers threw various lines and floating objects in an attempt to help, but the man made no attempt to hold onto them. He was finally pulled on board after 11 minutes in the water. He was unconscious and died.

So maybe that's what happened to Malcolm. His dad threw his cousin into False Creek and Malcolm had to stand there and watch him succumb to the chilly waters of British Columbia.

(I didn't get a phobia luckily, but I don't see my Dad anymore (not cause of that! lol, it's a bunch of other things) so it was the start of a rather bumpy relationship, lol)

[WarpGirl]

Sounds like something my dad would do. Really both my mom had to stop him. I would think Vulcans would have a more logical way of teaching people how to swim.

[Asso]

Asso I'm curious did I explain it wrong or are you joking? Because if you're joking I'm laughing really hard.

What it means: "really hard"?

[WarpGirl]

I meant I was laughing like this You know, loud obnoxious laughter.

[Asso]

I understood.
You know... joking is a part of life, but joking can be tremendously serious, too.

[WarpGirl]

I don't understand.

[enterprikayak]

now i'm laughing really hard