T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

Well most people here like to see T'Pol as a rebel longing to break free from an opressive culture. I never saw her character like that. But I can see the TPTB tried to push it, and that's one of the main reasons I hate the series. But I love the characters. Just not the way they developed T'Pol at all.

[honeybee]

I think I split it down the middle - she definitely longs to be around different cultures and definitely is on the "emotional" side of being a Vulcan - traits which more conservative Vulcans wouldn't like in her. So, that would make her rebellious in their eyes. On the other hand, it wouldn't make her less of a Vulcan. She's just a left of center Vulcan. On the other hand, she's hardly a "hippie" Vulcan - she's nothing like the Vosh Ka'tur. She learned the hard way what they were all about.

[WarpGirl]

The thing is I think TPTB tried to paint Vulcan society at the time as one that tried to put down individuality. Which is illogical and UnVulcan. So I just tend to view T'Pol as an individual not some rebel. I mean even at her most non-drugged emotional she's less emotional than a healthy Sarek. She definitely follows Surak, and logic. Where is the rebellion? So she did a few things that the corrupt VHC disapproved of, that doesn't make her UnVulcan.

[pdsldl]

Well most people here like to see T'Pol as a rebel longing to break free from an opressive culture. I never saw her character like that. But I can see the TPTB tried to push it, and that's one of the main reasons I hate the series. But I love the characters. Just not the way they developed T'Pol at all.

I'm not sure that's accurate. Some of us see her as a rebel trying to find what's best about her culture while exploring and trying out what she perceives as good about other cultures and incorporating what she finds acceptable it into her life. She is a Vulcan and always will be but that doesn't mean she has to be a automaton and not grow and change as a person.

[WarpGirl]

I didn't mean to say everyone sees it like that. But I have to say that in a lot of conversations and stories that I've read hear and elseware a lot of people, have her regecting her heritage. That kind of makes me sad. Yes there were things that the corrupt government got wrong. And yes, she did postpone her wedding. But that has nothing to do with regecting her heritage. And like I said it makes me sad. If you go way back to the first post in this topic the list of so called rebellious activites are only rebellious because of the corrupt government. It has nothing to do with being Vulcan. It's no secret I don't like a lot of the series' writing, but the whole thing of viewing T'Pol's being an individual and equating that as meaning she's a rebel is really sad and awful to me.

[pdsldl]

I see her as someone who is very independent in both her thoughts and actions, which by definition makes her a rebel. That doesn't equate to a bad thing it just means she refuses to let others dictate her behavior.

[WarpGirl]

But that isn't a rebel that's an individual.

[Aquarius]

That IS a rebel if she continues to go against social norms in the face of society's scorn.

[WarpGirl]

It wasn't society's scorn it was a corrupt goverment's scorn! If it was society's scorn V'Lar and Soval would have completely shunned her. This is my whole problem, nobody wants to remember that Vulcan society is corrupt at this point. IT is UnVulcan not T'Pol.

[Aquarius]

We are given the impression that the corrupt government had society pretty well in hand, though, don't we? Otherwise there would have been no need for the Syrranite (ahem) rebels to overthrow it. T'Pol's own initial beliefs about what it is to be a Vulcan are challenged, as she'd drank the Kool Aid for so long while solely among other Vulcans, then when she starts seeing things from other perspectives (as in human for the purposes of this discussion), that's when she starts going "Hey, hang on a minute..." in terms of everything she was taught to think, do, etc. So from what we're shown, there isn't such a hard line between "society" and "government" in her time.

[Reanok]

We are given the impression that the corrupt government had society pretty well in hand, though, don't we? Otherwise there would have been no need for the Syrranite (ahem) rebels to overthrow it. T'Pol's own initial beliefs about what it is to be a Vulcan are challenged, as she'd drank the Kool Aid for so long while solely among other Vulcans, then when she starts seeing things from other perspectives (as in human for the purposes of this discussion), that's when she starts going "Hey, hang on a minute..." in terms of everything she was taught to think, do, etc. So from what we're shown, there isn't such a hard line between "society" and "government" in her time.

I definitely agree with you Aquariouis I thought the same thing awhile back after rewatching the Andorian incident and Shadows of P'Jem.

[pdsldl]

Rebel: Noun

Someone who exhibits great independence in thought and action

verb

Break with established customs

What she was raised to believe she broke free of to some degree. Look at Stigma as a prime example. Even when she finds that her beliefs were based on a subverted version of Surak's teachings she still broke with her culture and became involved with a human and remained in Starfleet. We don't know what else may have changed for her but I'm willing to bet she that her relationship with Trip brought about other breaks with Vulcan customs.

[WarpGirl]

I guess my thing is because the government controled Vulcan society as they did during the ENT era I see that society as UnVulcan. Not T'Pol, so I don't see her as a rebel I see her as a true Vulcan. The only issues I have with her behavior was some of the situations written, and the dialog they wrote. But her personality and beliefs to me speak of a true Vulcan not a rebel.

[pdsldl]

But she's not a true blue Vulcan by the standards you set. She's emotional and she experiments with emotions and not meditating, resigns from VHC, etc... And it doesn't matter that the government is corrupt she and most of the rest of Vulcan believed in what they were taught. Many of the things she did were not acceptable under any Vulcan standards in any time period and she would have been seen as a rebel by her own people.

[WarpGirl]

Well I guess I just don't agree.