Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby justTripn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:16 am

Aikiweezie wrote:As a Catholic science buff and science fiction enthusiast I was happy to read, about a year or so I think, that the Catholic church's "official" position (what's really official can be debated even when it comes down to things the Pope says actually, but this I am pretty sure was from the Vatican) is that Extra Terrestrial life is certainly possible, because with God, anything is possible, even if it it difficult or impossible to explain. The offifial Catholic position on evolution might surprise non-Catholic's too, it's considered sound science and I was taught evolution all through Catholic grade school and high school. This is before "intelligent design" was even coined as a phrase, by the way. We were taught all about evolution in bio class and never really got into the whole debate.


Yes, the Catholic Church really damaged its reputation by censoring Galileo. But the details of that incident are surprising. It was is not the story of a secular natural philosopher attacking church beliefs and getting squelched. Galileo was a very concerned and obedient Catholic. For instance when the Catholic church would censor books back in those days, they wouldn't necessarily ban the whole book. They would issue an order for everyone to go cross out certain sentences and replace them with new sentences. (Books were too expensive to just throw out). SO GALILEO WOULD DUTIFULLY DO THIS WITH HIS OWN BOOKS. So he was very obedient. He was also a strong Catholic and that was one of his motivations for fighting this battle with the Catholic church. Being one of the first to point his telescope at the night sky, he realized that the Earth-centered view WOULD be overturned. Since Protestants would have no qualms about following the evidence in this regard, he was afraid it would leave the Catholic church look silly if they were to deny it so he tried to push the issue. He miscalculated and pushed to hard. If he had laid low, they might have come around on their own.

First he actually ran the idea for his book past his friend at the Vatican. The idea was to set up a "dialogue" on two world systems, with one fictional character presenting one side of the argument for an Earth Centered world and another fictional character presenting the argument for a Sun centered world, without coming down on one side of the other or the argument. That idea was OK'd in theory. Unfortunately, when the book came out, one guy had all the best arguments and the other guy was obviously goofy. In fact his name was "Simplico," lol . . .

Ut oh . . . an enemy of Galileo pressured the pope to "DO SOMETHING. He's making fun of you!" If it hadn't been for the guy pressuring the pope to "DO SOMETHING" Galileo would have probably gotten away with it and the Catholic church would have made no pronouncement at all on the issue and not become famous for insisting that the Sun revolves around the Earth.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby justTripn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:27 am

Similarly, I think that certain Protestant churches have taken a stand against evolution which makes them appear silly relative to churches that haven't. But it didn't have to be. So you are saying the Catholic church didn't react against the evidence for evolution?

My church sure did. My church's idea of the integration of faith and science was to suggest that maybe the dinosaurs survived the flood by standing on their tippy toes on the tops of the highest mountains. *sigh*

Oh, this in answer to the question: How did two of every kind of dinasaur fit on the Noah's Ark. Saddly this was a group of high school kids.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Aikiweezie » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:00 am

justTripn wrote:Similarly, I think that certain Protestant churches have taken a stand against evolution which makes them appear silly relative to churches that haven't. But it didn't have to be. So you are saying the Catholic church didn't react against the evidence for evolution?

My church sure did. My church's idea of the integration of faith and science was to suggest that maybe the dinosaurs survived the flood by standing on their tippy toes on the tops of the highest mountains. *sigh*

Oh, this in answer to the question: How did two of every kind of dinasaur fit on the Noah's Ark. Saddly this was a group of high school kids.


I have no idea what the Catholic church's reaction to "The Origin of Species" was at the time of publication, but I can tell you from expereince that evolution has never been an issue in my over 15 years of Catholic education. It's taught in bio classes as a fact.

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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Linda » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:32 pm

Thanks, KTR for the title of that story and the real author's name. I should reread Arthur C. Clark and Asimov. I read them so long ago. Certain story plots made an impression on me even if I forget the author and title. Do you know the title of the story about computer evolution? I do know that one was really by Asimov...or is it? :lol:
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby JadziaKathryn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:52 pm

I'm not Catholic (proudly Protestant, in fact), but the idea of thinking about aliens from a Christian perspective has interested me for a while. My stance is that it's not likely, but it's possible. There would be theological questions of all kinds, of course. Did Jesus have to die on the other planet too? What if you had a planet where their version of Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit?
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Linda » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:56 pm

Oh boy, I may be jumping into this, but if Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit on this other planet, they would not have left the garden, right? They would not have had to fend for themselves like humans had to, so they would not have evolved their technology to cope with a desparate situation like we had. Standing around naked while seeing us land a star ship on their planet to say hello would really freak them out, I think. They would be very exploitable by any unscrupulous aliens that discovered them. :? Now aren't you glad Eva picked that apple and we humans were booted out of the garden? :poke: I think God set us up for that and wanted us to pick that apple. Like any responsible parent, God wanted humans to grow up and leave home. Oh, and I think the Vulcans did something even worse than the humans did for not only were they booted out of their garden, according to one ST novel, Spock's World, I think it was, the garden was removed from the planet in a cataclysmic planet-wide environmental change so that they could never find it again. :lol: We humans still have pieces of ideal climate in patches, here and there, on our planet.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Alelou » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:41 pm

The story of Adam and Eve is a lovely metaphorical way of trying to make sense of mankind's existence and our relationship to God which has been handed down for generations.

What gets a little crazy to me, and gives the smug atheists some easy ammunition, is literally believing in a talking snake, the female sex being formed out of a piece of man, and a fruit that, when ingested, reveals the difference between good and evil.

Sounds like an interesting science fiction plot, though. :)
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Aikiweezie » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:08 pm

In Catholic school we were taught the "Adam & Eve" story, but in later years, Jr. high and high school we were taught it was not to be taken literally. I guess that's a big point of departure from many (but not all) of our Protestant friends. This is also different than the education my parents received in Caatholic school 30 years prior.

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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Linda » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:20 pm

I wasn't trying to be a smug atheist. I was trying to keep the conversation on a lighter note which I see did not work. I AM capable of understanding mythological concepts. I guess I better just leave this conversation. Elessar is right, things can get tense and people can get hurt.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Aikiweezie » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:45 pm

Linda wrote:I wasn't trying to be a smug atheist. I was trying to keep the conversation on a lighter note which I see did not work. I AM capable of understanding mythological concepts. I guess I better just leave this conversation. Elessar is right, things can get tense and people can get hurt.


I don't think anyone took it that way at all! I sure didn't. :shock:

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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Alelou » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:50 pm

I didn't think you meant it seriously or literally, Linda. I'm just saying I think that's where a lot of people jump.

But yeah, Elessar probably is right.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby justTripn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:34 pm

Linda wrote:Oh boy, I may be jumping into this, but if Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit on this other planet, they would not have left the garden, right? They would not have had to fend for themselves like humans had to, so they would not have evolved their technology to cope with a desparate situation like we had. Standing around naked while seeing us land a star ship on their planet to say hello would really freak them out, I think. They would be very exploitable by any unscrupulous aliens that discovered them. :? Now aren't you glad Eva picked that apple and we humans were booted out of the garden? :poke: I think God set us up for that and wanted us to pick that apple. Like any responsible parent, God wanted humans to grow up and leave home. Oh, and I think the Vulcans did something even worse than the humans did for not only were they booted out of their garden, according to one ST novel, Spock's World, I think it was, the garden was removed from the planet in a cataclysmic planet-wide environmental change so that they could never find it again. :lol: We humans still have pieces of ideal climate in patches, here and there, on our planet.


I was enjoying your speculations!
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby JadziaKathryn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:42 pm

Okay, supposing there are aliens who are actually just like us physiologically. This is not out of the realm of possibility if you are working with the idea (as the Catholic Church obviously is) that there's a creator. This I suppose works for most any religion. If there's a creator, then you could have a planet like Earth with inhabitants like us.

So... in that case, are they really aliens?

I suspect if there is alien life it's probably like microbes or amoebas, but the idea is interesting anyway.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby Linda » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:45 pm

Um, on rereading what I wrote, I think my use of the icons was in poor taste, but the speculation is okay? I'm glad no one took it badly. Sorry. I like to speculate on the meaning of things.
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Re: Catholic Church Considering Alien Life?

Postby JadziaKathryn » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Linda wrote:Um, on rereading what I wrote, I think my use of the icons was in poor taste, but the speculation is okay? I'm glad no one took it badly. Sorry. I like to speculate on the meaning of things.
Actually, I thought Alelou's comment was the more critical. (Nothing personal. Just saying. I think that the Adam and Eve story is eminently less "crazy" than everything including us evolving from slime. Something about the use of "crazy" irked me.)

But I too like to speculate. There's a whole lot of interesting 'what ifs' in the universe! And 'what if we're not alone' is a big one!
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