Did T'Pol NEED the Trellium D?

[WarpGirl]

In terms of how the show was I'd say yes neuropressure was necessary. Because nobody wanted to write something that didn't go for the sex factor. Sex was way more important to ENT then the other Treks. The Trell-D that they could have gotten around. They could have aired Harbinger and never revealed T'Pol to be an addict later.

IMVHO I'm sorry they could both have been dropped there was enough grounds to have a realtionship built on trust and emotional intimacy in season 3 without the physical creeping in. Neither of them had been ready for that, especially in the context of the situation they were in. Alelou said it first, they actually had no business getting lucky in that time period. I think the neuropressure is interesting as a tool to use in the touch-telepathy all Vulcans have, and how that affects Trip through the Bond. However, like I said before, it gets entirely too much credit. Nuropressure and Trell-D are the two biggest fakeouts in trek history for a relationship.

[Aikiweezie]

IMVHO I'm sorry they could both have been dropped there was enough grounds to have a realtionship built on trust and emotional intimacy in season 3 without However, like I said before, it gets entirely too much credit. Nuropressure and Trell-D are the two biggest fakeouts in trek history for a relationship.

I agree that they would have eventually grown closer together and ended up in a relationship anyway. It may have taken a loooooooooooong time, though.

I don't see Neuropressure as a copout.

Trip was at wits end, stressed out, wound as tight as he could be and unable to sleep. Phlox had nothing more to offer. T'Pol had a special skill that could help him. I believe that if it were a female crew member he would have suggested neuropressure to her, too. (example, saya crew member practiced acupuncture and a crew member needed therapy for an injury) It just so happens that Trip and T'Pol already like each other and are already attracted to eachother. Combine that with intimate contact and a lot time spent together, alone in her quarters by candlelight and they fell in love. Yes, it turned into a mess, but sometimes these things do.

As far as trellium, I sort of agree, but I don't think I'd feel that way if it were a completely seperate thing and in a different time frams from her relationship with Tip. I liked "impulse" and thought the idea of Trellium being toxic was interesting. I also think it is possible that she was addicted from first exposure.

[Aikiweezie]

IMVHO I'm sorry they could both have been dropped there was enough grounds to have a realtionship built on trust and emotional intimacy in season 3 without However, like I said before, it gets entirely too much credit. Nuropressure and Trell-D are the two biggest fakeouts in trek history for a relationship.

I agree that they would have eventually grown closer together and ended up in a relationship anyway. It may have taken a loooooooooooong time, though.

I don't see Neuropressure as a copout.

Trip was at wits end, stressed out, wound as tight as he could be and unable to sleep. Phlox had nothing more to offer. T'Pol had a special skill that could help him. I believe that if it were a female crew member he would have suggested neuropressure to her, too. (example, saya crew member practiced acupuncture and a crew member needed therapy for an injury) It just so happens that Trip and T'Pol already like each other and are already attracted to eachother. Combine that with intimate contact and a lot time spent together, alone in her quarters by candlelight and they fell in love. Yes, it turned into a mess, but sometimes these things do.

As far as trellium, I sort of agree, but I don't think I'd feel that way if it were a completely seperate thing and in a different time frams from her relationship with Tip. I liked "impulse" and thought the idea of Trellium being toxic was interesting. I also think it is possible that she was addicted from first exposure.

[WarpGirl]

OK in the interest of full discloser I also really liked Impulse I have no problems with the Trell-D as a toxin that impairs a Vulcan by stripping away their control. From the dawn of Trek the Vulcan brain has been touted as far more fragile then a human's or a klingon's. Therefore neurotoxins are particularly dangerous. That is fine. Great episode comparatively speaking with some of the others, even with super Archer! That said the whole after math would have been a lot different if Phlox knew she was addicted and treatment was slow and agonizing. Rather then she's fine in a few days then months later we find out she's shooting up.

Also I am not against neuropressure. I do credit it with a chunk of good stuff happening to our couple. Just the fact that T'Pol was willing and eager to help Trip, (so much so that she tricked him) was a great step in the relationship. So kudos. Also it brings in a lot of how does Aquarius put it? Oh yeah, cool Vulcan mojo, with the touch telepathy, and psychic bonding. I'm just saying they used the phyical because people like sex, but there could have been other ways to help. Spock would not have done this for Kirk. Or Tuvok for Janeway. And I really doubt Phlox would suggest it for anyone else. It kind of negates the sex factor in the show. I'm sorry to be harsh but there is the truth as I know it.

[Alelou]

If Kirk needed it, and Bones suggested it, I bet Spock would have done it.

Ditto for Tuvok and Janeway.

But it would be done quickly and efficiently. And without the candles and silk pajamas. Which means it would never have made it onto TV, because frankly who would care... it would be like watching Beverly and Deanna do their little exercise routine. It would just be something for the actors to do while they hash out something that presumably has some bearing on the plot of that week's episode.

This is what makes me conclude they were planning to get into some TnT that season from the beginning, actually. It was just too deliberate, how they spaced those little scenes, forming a season-long arc. And the pajamas and the candles started pretty early. So it couldn't have just been a brain fart for a sweeps week.

[Aquarius]

Of course, if you look back, people were writing about these two jumping each other right from the early first season... there was enough chemistry that you figured all it would take was some little spark/excuse/alien pathogen/deserted planet/ratings sweep period desperation (was Harbinger aired during sweeps?).

I swore I was gonna stay out of this one...

...but I'm here just long enough to say "Yes," it aired during February sweeps, on 2-11-04.

[Alelou]

Okay ... so they deliberately planned to take advantage of that chemistry during sweeps as part of a season-long arc. What episode did we get during the May sweeps, I wonder?

Smart guys. If I'd been watching then at all, it certainly would have gotten ME to tune in.

[Aquarius]

If Kirk needed it, and Bones suggested it, I bet Spock would have done it.

Ditto for Tuvok and Janeway.

But it would be done quickly and efficiently. And without the candles and silk pajamas. Which means it would never have made it onto TV, because frankly who would care... it would be like watching Beverly and Deanna do their little exercise routine. It would just be something for the actors to do while they hash out something that presumably has some bearing on the plot of that week's episode.

This is what makes me conclude they were planning to get into some TnT that season from the beginning, actually. It was just too deliberate, how they spaced those little scenes, forming a season-long arc. And the pajamas and the candles started pretty early. So it couldn't have just been a brain fart for a sweeps week.

Okay, just one more, then I swear I'm out...

As one of my majors is broadcasting/electronic media, I feel compelled to say that it was likely a combination of both: a planned arc, culminating in the sex happening early in Sweeps month, to keep the viewers intrigued and coming back to see if there'd be more through the balance of the month.

[Aquarius]

Okay ... so they deliberately planned to take advantage of that chemistry during sweeps as part of a season-long arc. What episode did we get during the May sweeps, I wonder?

Damn you...

The answer is E2.

[Alelou]

Hey, aren't you done with school? Why can't we drag you back in????

I'm currently enjoying an entirely artificial lull in my workload before all the friggin' research papers hit me next week.

[WarpGirl]

OK purely for my own peace of mind I feel this needs re-stating. The purpose of this thread was not to discuss T'Pol's use of the Trell-D as right, wrong, or just really cool regardless. It's not to disect whether people thought it was the most awesome story in the history of Trek, or the worst idea ever. The idea was to discuss if T'Pol NEEDED the Trell-D to discover her feelings for Trip. Now I am the first to admit whether or not you like the idea colors your opinion on it. And that's the point of talking about it. Yes discussions on how well T'Pol is aware of her own feelings, and if Trip was a paragon of long suffering are relevent to the topic, and by all means bring them in. However they are not the core issue. I'm sorry some people have had to swear they wouldn't participate. It was most certainly not my intent to create a topic that would turn hostile, or in any way be considered a means to put down anyone else's opinions. I have had a lot of fun with Alelou, Dinahand pdlsdl with this topic. I hope more people join it.

I liked Neuropressure, I truly did. I just think it gets too much credit. I also like Trell-D as a danger, Impulse was a great episode I just can't watch it in the dark. But to sum up my thoughts on the core issue I'll just quote what I said before... About the Trell-D the conclusion I've come too is, it didn't open her eyes to her emotions, bring them within reach, allow her to accsess them. All it did was force her to react. That's it. No grand revelation, no open doors, or angel's chorus. Her control was in shreds, she was impaired, she made a mess.

[Aquarius]

Alelou-Oh, I've been participating. And yeah, I'm done with school for the moment. I just didn't want to get pulled into this particular thread. I have nothing to contribute beyond what I've said all the other times the subject has come up. One time Eian set part of it to pictures for me, just to freshen it up a little, but my opinion on the role of Trellium-D in T'Pol's life and the night passion she shared with Trip has not changed, so I figured the same people would just say "I agree" and the same people would offer rebuttals. Seen this episode before.

[honeybee]

The sweeps stunt wasn't just TnT romance/sex - but the showing of JB/T'Pol's nice assets. Of course, that was edited after the Janet Jackson fiasco.

I have a two day grading lull until final projects come in, Alelou. Then, I will do nothing but grade for about a week - and then done. I remain envious of you, Aquarius, being finished.

[Aquarius]

The sweeps stunt wasn't just TnT romance/sex - but the showing of JB/T'Pol's nice assets. Of course, that was edited after the Janet Jackson fiasco.

I have a two day grading lull until final projects come in, Alelou. Then, I will do nothing but grade for about a week - and then done. I remain envious of you, Aquarius, being finished.

Funny--earlier today I was just thinking about how I envy you, Alelou, and Eian your lives.

Any way--I hadn't made the connection between "Harbinger" and the Janet Jackson thing, since I wasn't actively watching Enterprise as the time. Are you saying that they showed more than just T'Pol's butt crack prior to the Janet thing and cleaned it up as a result?

[honeybee]

They didn't show her butt crack at all. They cropped and warped the robe drop scene - I've seen still online. It aired in Canada and most other markets as we all know it from the DVD, and in later repeats with the butt in tact - but the original airing was altered at the last minute.

Find yourself a good MFA program Aquarius - and you'll soon have a pile of papers of your own to grade, Aquarius.