"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[panyasan]

Welcome, Thot! Great first post!

Yes, welcome. I enjoyed reading your post and your views.

Hey Rigil.

Haven't been around much for a while.HtH

It's good to hear from you again.

[Thot]

Would Starfleet simply reintegrate them back into the original crew? Really? One might think an extended debriefing, reassignment, retraining, evaluation rest.rehab would be in the offing for both.

Well, you're quite right with that, but since I'm still envisioning the return of T/T to Enterprise and then Rigil would "rewrite"/"rewrap" the rest of the series from there on, I could think of the possibility, that they return around the time of the Xindi-attack on Earth, and Archer pushs everything to get Trip and T'Pol with him into the Expanse.
For sure the brass wouldn't like it at first, since the normal procedure would be to do the things that hth2k pointed out, but I think they could be convinced, that T/T are the best qualified to do this (working under stress, survival on their own plus their skills in operations on Enterprise itself)

Additionally it seems likely to me, that Cdr. Hernandez won't be staying too long on Enterprise after A.G. Robinson gets killed in the climbing incident. Yes, I know that the accident doesn't have to happen, but it would be good for the storyline, since Robinson's death could be a major hit Archer would have to handle => good scene.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Enterprise currently have a Science Officer we know of in Rigil's universe?
At least I can't remember one...


@ Dinah and panyasan

Thanks for the welcome.

[Silverbullet]

Thot, welcome from me too. Believe we have bumped in to one another in the comments section of one story.

SB

[Rigil Kent]

Do you have a link to the whole photo? This I'd like to see.

Not on my laptop, I'm afraid. My desktop is "in the shop" so to speak, so I don't have access to the larger group of ENT-related photos I have on it. Sorry.

So this is my first signal in this forum... so let's begin.

Welcome aboard!

At first I was quite sceptical about the plot and so on,

So was I, initially. I've rarely seen the Stranded! plot motif done well - even the canon show generally ripped off superior stories when they tried to do that "Alien Mine" episode in season 2, so its always at the back of my mine that I need to be cautious.

- a scene, where you would told us a bit about the Pa'Nar revelation would have been good, something like 'Trip is shocked, storms off some time later and then contemplaits about what she said', but this is far from making it bad or such a thing, since you picked up in a later scene again (can't remember it right now, but Trip was thinking to himself about T'Pol and commented about her being the one, who will die earlier than him or so...)

See, I didn't really see the point in having T'Pol rehash "Fusion" since most of the readers already know what happened. Plus, outside of Trip's initial reaction, not much would have happened in that scene.

To the prospects:
I just pray that you will reintegrate them in some time, because it gives you so much potential to right: Trip and T'Pol both on their own, have changed tremendously during this months (Trip from being still a bit innocent/ an explorer to someone, who went through a war, had to kill - I simply commend you on the scanvenger situation, where he had an emotional responce - and T'Pol with her believes turned upside down) and Archer who is doubting in many ways

A reviewer at fanfic.net put it best, I think: Tucker is now "Weaponized" (well, the reviewer used the British spelling with the s instead of a z, but the point stays the same.) I do plan on a reintegration down the road, but not for some time.

I just can't get a possible scene out of my head, where Trip and T'Pol come back without Archer knowing and Trip wants to surprise Jon by simply stepping through the door and delievering a status report (a joke as if nothing had happen or Trip makes some remarks like 'You people seem to be lost without me' or 'Now look at that: You are just away for a few months and the engines go into a vacation'), Jon simply listens shocked till his core about Trip being alive and then Jon has something like a breakdown whatever

An amusing scenario, to be sure. A few components that I'm aware complicate the idea, but it certainly has potential...

Hey Rigil.

Hey, hth.

Haven't been around much for a while.

You and me both.

Would Starfleet simply reintegrate them back into the original crew?

Realistically? Probably not. As you say, they'd spend forever in debriefings, but this is Trek which very rarely makes sense so as long as I approach it correctly, it'll work. Whether they'd want to reintegrate or are even capable of doing so, well...

What about Trip? I don't seem to recall the military returning captives or MIAs back to their regular units promptly.

Can't say I'm aware of many either. Sure, there was plenty of instances in WW2 of wounded soldiers leaving the hospital earlier than was advisable to get back into the foxholes with their buddies, but MIAs? An interesting research question...

Hmmm, T'Pol is apparently suffering more damage than in the series with no intervention.

While the show never came out said it, I'm presuming that Canon Phlox continued his discreet attempts to cure her pa'nar throughout season 2 and 3 (up to the point where she started using trellium and ducked out of those sessions), so his efforts were at least slowing the degradation of the neural pathways. She doesn't have him around in this story, so the pa'nar continues unabated or unhindered. So it will have long term ramifications for her.

Also one may wonder about issues for her reintegrating with Current Vulcan society considering her medical, mental, political and ideological changes. She definately is not the officer theVHC sent to observe the human crew any longer.

It really, depends, on exactly when she & Trip return. Pre-Kir'shara, you're dead on right - the High Command would probably freak out once they realized she was bonded to a human, so they'd be interested in burying her (and probably Tucker too) in a deep, dark hole ... if it wasn't for those fraking humans who were trying to throw the two a celebratory parade. Post-Kir'shara is actually more interesting, I think, as Vulcan culture is in a state of transition - they're trying to turn into the TOS-era Vulcans by reconnecting with Surak's true teachings, but old habits die hard. So yeah ... it all depends on when they get back.

Sometimes going home isn't just that easy.

For both of them, actually. The new and improved Weaponized Trip will be nothing like the happy-go-lucky 'good ole boy' that most of the crew knew before Ekos, and I've got another plot thread coming up ... no ... you'll have to wait and see on that one.

Any plans to continue or finish Endeavour?

Yes. When, I dunno. I've got Endeavour: Amaterasu plotted out, know what is to happen in the one that follows it (Endeavour: Xolotl), and know roughly what is to transpire with the main characters for the rest of the series, but I haven't actually sat down and tried to work on it since I'm focused on DivPath and on finding a job.

I could think of the possibility, that they return around the time of the Xindi-attack on Earth, and Archer pushs everything to get Trip and T'Pol with him into the Expanse.

Nope. Not gonna happen. Plus, my Xindi arc is going to be a little different from the canon version since there were a couple of horrifically bad plot holes they totally ignored throughout...

Additionally it seems likely to me, that Cdr. Hernandez won't be staying too long on Enterprise after A.G. Robinson gets killed in the climbing incident. Yes, I know that the accident doesn't have to happen, but it would be good for the storyline, since Robinson's death could be a major hit Archer would have to handle => good scene.

Doesn't Jon already have enough to deal with? And right now, CDR Hernandez is not yet ready for her own command. She knows it, Jon knows it, Starfleet Command knows it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Enterprise currently have a Science Officer we know of in Rigil's universe?

I've referenced (very early on) an Ensign Ling (can't recall if I gave her a first name or not), but they definitely don't have one up to T'Pol's caliber.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Please someone remind me, when was the pa'nar illness first introduced in the series? I don't think it was actually in Fusion. Wasn't it until Stigma? In that case it means that you could've skipped it entirely in your story here, Rigil. Of course you didn't, but I'm just putting it out there.

And what about the Fullara mind-wipe? That was revealed in an episode after the paths diverged in Dead Stop.

[Rigil Kent]

Please someone remind me, when was the pa'nar illness first introduced in the series? I don't think it was actually in Fusion. Wasn't it until Stigma? In that case it means that you could've skipped it entirely in your story here, Rigil. Of course you didn't, but I'm just putting it out there.

It added drama that I greatly wanted. Plus, T'Pol acted stupidly in "Fusion" and, in my universe(s), actions have consequences.

And what about the Fullara mind-wipe? That was revealed in an episode after the paths diverged in Dead Stop.

Actually, it showed up about three episodes later. ANIS followed "Dead Stop" which was followed by "Marauders" and then "The Seventh" where the whole Fullara thing was introduced. If you recall, it is not a mind wipe in my universe.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Actually, it showed up about three episodes later. ANIS followed "Dead Stop" which was followed by "Marauders" and then "The Seventh" where the whole Fullara thing was introduced. If you recall, it is not a mind wipe in my universe.

Since I haven't re-read DivPaths from the beginning, I cannot remember exactly what the Fullara was in your universe. Would you kindly remind a busy soul (even one on vacation), or at least point me to the chapter in question.

[Rigil Kent]

Actually, it showed up about three episodes later. ANIS followed "Dead Stop" which was followed by "Marauders" and then "The Seventh" where the whole Fullara thing was introduced. If you recall, it is not a mind wipe in my universe.

Since I haven't re-read DivPaths from the beginning, I cannot remember exactly what the Fullara was in your universe. Would you kindly remind a busy soul (even one on vacation), or at least point me to the chapter in question.

Chapter 38.

[panyasan]

I like the new chapter with Daniels. I hadn't expected it, because I don't really like Daniels and his medling with time. However, the chapter was funny at times and a good break after all the emotions in the previous two chapters. Made me think of the theory I once heard: your life is like a chess board. Every move you make has consequences (the stones are set differently) and leads to a different play.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Chapter 38.

Thanks! A much better kind of Fullara than what we got on the show.

And speaking of your av, it's from this picture I found on my harddrive:

[Alelou]

LOL. The hoodie and the grimace ... she's so not T'Pol.

Meanwhile, CT is acting like T'Pol.

[Thot]

- a scene, where you would told us a bit about the Pa'Nar revelation would have been good, something like 'Trip is shocked, storms off some time later and then contemplaits about what she said', but this is far from making it bad or such a thing, since you picked up in a later scene again (can't remember it right now, but Trip was thinking to himself about T'Pol and commented about her being the one, who will die earlier than him or so...)

See, I didn't really see the point in having T'Pol rehash "Fusion" since most of the readers already know what happened. Plus, outside of Trip's initial reaction, not much would have happened in that scene.

Well, you are right, that we as shippers can imagine, how it should have gone, how Trip reacted and so on, but I just saw it more from the 'flow of the writing point' in itself, because someone who isn't too much into T/T but starts to read your story, because somebody recommended it or something else, would be a little bit puzzled why this "scene" isn't their. Once again: For me it isn't a big deal.

To the prospects:
I just pray that you will reintegrate them in some time, because it gives you so much potential to right: Trip and T'Pol both on their own, have changed tremendously during this months (Trip from being still a bit innocent/ an explorer to someone, who went through a war, had to kill - I simply commend you on the scanvenger situation, where he had an emotional responce - and T'Pol with her believes turned upside down) and Archer who is doubting in many ways

A reviewer at fanfic.net put it best, I think: Tucker is now "Weaponized" (well, the reviewer used the British spelling with the s instead of a z, but the point stays the same.) I do plan on a reintegration down the road, but not for some time.

Does this mean, that it will still take some time for them "to return" or that the reintegration part won't be a long piece? I hope only the former option.

I just can't get a possible scene out of my head, where Trip and T'Pol come back without Archer knowing and Trip wants to surprise Jon by simply stepping through the door and delievering a status report (a joke as if nothing had happen or Trip makes some remarks like 'You people seem to be lost without me' or 'Now look at that: You are just away for a few months and the engines go into a vacation'), Jon simply listens shocked till his core about Trip being alive and then Jon has something like a breakdown whatever

An amusing scenario, to be sure. A few components that I'm aware complicate the idea, but it certainly has potential...

Thanks...I would just like to see a scene in this direction: an emotional confrontation outside the 'romance repertoire' - I really like the deep freindship/platonic love relationship between Archer and Trip, but please without romance. I just find the potential dynamic between A/T great, because something like this isn't often to witness in the television/movie area: Trip trusts Archer beyond everything plus Archer relies on Trip for his sanity/peace of mind and at the same time you could point out Trip's naivety to trust too much and Archer's attitude to take Trip for granted + to patronize Trip in some way.
Two things you have already addressed or have a great deal of potential for in your story, Rigil.

I could think of the possibility, that they return around the time of the Xindi-attack on Earth, and Archer pushs everything to get Trip and T'Pol with him into the Expanse.

Nope. Not gonna happen. Plus, my Xindi arc is going to be a little different from the canon version since there were a couple of horrifically bad plot holes they totally ignored throughout...

Okay. Sounds good.
One point I have always wondered is: If the sphere builders can position dozens of one tousand years old sphere of the size of a small moon in the known universe, why shouldn't they be able to throw a bomb, send the Death Star or whatever to Earth, but need the Xindi to do it?
An explanation would be that somebody else had build it for them, who had been manipulated by the Sphere Builders.
At least that's a plot, which I pick up in my piece of fiction I'm working on right now, but I can't publish it yet, because I don't get a beta until now... *giving a broad hint*

Additionally it seems likely to me, that Cdr. Hernandez won't be staying too long on Enterprise after A.G. Robinson gets killed in the climbing incident. Yes, I know that the accident doesn't have to happen, but it would be good for the storyline, since Robinson's death could be a major hit Archer would have to handle => good scene.

Doesn't Jon already have enough to deal with? And right now, CDR Hernandez is not yet ready for her own command. She knows it, Jon knows it, Starfleet Command knows it.

Oh... so A.G. stays at least for some time more
I just thought, it would have been a good head line to address Archer's problem. Something like a 'it-has-to-get-worse-to-get-better-later-plot'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Enterprise currently have a Science Officer we know of in Rigil's universe?

I've referenced (very early on) an Ensign Ling (can't recall if I gave her a first name or not), but they definitely don't have one up to T'Pol's caliber.

Okay, there's a name, but I can understand why don't pick her up and portrait her as the new Chief Sciene Officer, since with Hernandez, Kelby and Soval you already have to handle a bigger cast as the normal series... wait a minute: Did you actually do a scene out of Kelby's view? I don't think so.
Wouldn't a funny 'the-engine-is-eating-me-alive-scene' be nice?
But please without Kelby bashing, because it's just too lame.

Welcome aboard!

Thanks!

Thot, welcome from me too. Believe we have bumped in to one another in the comments section of one story.

Oh, yeah... I remember something.
And believe me: I'm still not convinced of the decision from T'Pol, just like you.

[Rigil Kent]

Does this mean, that it will still take some time for them "to return" or that the reintegration part won't be a long piece?

Well that would be telling, wouldn't it?

Thanks...I would just like to see a scene in this direction: an emotional confrontation outside the 'romance repertoire' - I really like the deep freindship/platonic love relationship between Archer and Trip, but please without romance.

It's a bro-mance! Seriously, I liked it too, but they curtailed it throughout the series to the point where I had trouble buying that they were really friends post-Cogenitor. Yeah, they went through the motions, and both tried every now and then, but I just didn't see the deep connection that was once there.

Trip trusts Archer beyond everything

That may have been the case prior to the beginning of this story, but it's certainly no longer true. The person Trip now trusts beyond any and everything is T'Pol.

plus Archer relies on Trip for his sanity/peace of mind

Indisputably true. He's struggling at the moment because he doesn't have the sounding board or the friendship he's taken for granted.

But yeah, it's gonna be fun when TnT reintegrate down the road and everyone (both sides of the equation) realize that you can't go home again.

One point I have always wondered is: If the sphere builders can position dozens of one tousand years old sphere of the size of a small moon in the known universe, why shouldn't they be able to throw a bomb, send the Death Star or whatever to Earth, but need the Xindi to do it?

First, I thought the sphere builders were a dumb idea when there was a far more logical explanation behind it, so they're going to get tossed aside. Second, there is no logic at all to the initial Xindi attack so I have a need to fix that as well.

Did you actually do a scene out of Kelby's view? I don't think so.

No, I haven't done a Kelby POV scene yet mostly because I haven't discovered the proper opportunity. You'll notice I've also only had the one Hoshi POV chapter thus far for similar reasons.

But please without Kelby bashing, because it's just too lame.

Yeah, not a big fan of that myself. I blame the canon show which basically portrayed him as a rank incompetent so as to highlight how awesome Trip was.

[Thot]

Does this mean, that it will still take some time for them "to return" or that the reintegration part won't be a long piece?

Well that would be telling, wouldn't it?

You can't blame a guy for trying...

Thanks...I would just like to see a scene in this direction: an emotional confrontation outside the 'romance repertoire' - I really like the deep freindship/platonic love relationship between Archer and Trip, but please without romance.

It's a bro-mance! Seriously, I liked it too, but they curtailed it throughout the series to the point where I had trouble buying that they were really friends post-Cogenitor. Yeah, they went through the motions, and both tried every now and then, but I just didn't see the deep connection that was once there.

True, true, true.
But still like the idea, that they realize it and try to find a new unstanding, because let's face the fact, that they both aren't having real peace of mind since this rift.

Bro-mance? This is a perfect word. Is it from you?

Trip trusts Archer beyond everything

That may have been the case prior to the beginning of this story, but it's certainly no longer true. The person Trip now trusts beyond any and everything is T'Pol.

Completly granted. Makes sense in your story now.

plus Archer relies on Trip for his sanity/peace of mind

Indisputably true. He's struggling at the moment because he doesn't have the sounding board or the friendship he's taken for granted.

That's why Archer would want this friendship (perhaps in another shape) back. I mean... to find again the one close person your are in any way close, you thought you have killed, because of your failure... This must be redemption for him.

But yeah, it's gonna be fun when TnT reintegrate down the road and everyone (both sides of the equation) realize that you can't go home again.

I just hope, you make it a good/close friendship (bromance - I just love that word) again, because all those 'new-understanding-between-Trip-and-Archer-after-starting-a-relationship-with-T'Pol-stories' end in Archer bashing - At least I can't remember one, where it doesn't go this way.
That's so judgemental instead of using it for real character developement between them.

One point I have always wondered is: If the sphere builders can position dozens of one tousand years old sphere of the size of a small moon in the known universe, why shouldn't they be able to throw a bomb, send the Death Star or whatever to Earth, but need the Xindi to do it?

First, I thought the sphere builders were a dumb idea when there was a far more logical explanation behind it, so they're going to get tossed aside. Second, there is no logic at all to the initial Xindi attack so I have a need to fix that as well.

Well to your second point: I have wondered about this too and just thought "Oh, a plothole in order to force Enterprise into the Expanse in the first place", but than I remembered the inplication of the E² episode: The Xindi-Counsil already thought that Earth knew about their existence, since they had those readings of an earthship on scanners sometimes => Lorian's Enterprise.
I know, I'm not totally fine with this myself, but it would be quite ironical, that jumping back in time for 117 years has "caused" the first attack => time paradoxon.
But I'm completly fine with it, if you do another way.

Did you actually do a scene out of Kelby's view? I don't think so.

No, I haven't done a Kelby POV scene yet mostly because I haven't discovered the proper opportunity. You'll notice I've also only had the one Hoshi POV chapter thus far for similar reasons.

Okay, would be just funny

But please without Kelby bashing, because it's just too lame.

Yeah, not a big fan of that myself. I blame the canon show which basically portrayed him as a rank incompetent so as to highlight how awesome Trip was.

Well, I could have lived with it, when they would have addressed it in a better way: Something like 'Headquarters should realize, that's quiet a difference to do engines at your space stations or in deep space' combined with a generous remark from Trip...

[Rigil Kent]

Bro-mance? This is a perfect word. Is it from you?

Nope. Seen it all over the place.

I just hope, you make it a good/close friendship (bromance - I just love that word) again, because all those 'new-understanding-between-Trip-and-Archer-after-starting-a-relationship-with-T'Pol-stories' end in Archer bashing - At least I can't remember one, where it doesn't go this way.

Honestly, I can't think of any that I've read that go this route. *shrug* But then, I generally avoid fics that bash Archer because, as much as I generally didn't like the character as portrayed on the show, I don't have the kneejerk loathing of the character some people seem to have.

Well to your second point: I have wondered about this too and just thought "Oh, a plothole in order to force Enterprise into the Expanse in the first place", but than I remembered the inplication of the E² episode: The Xindi-Counsil already thought that Earth knew about their existence, since they had those readings of an earthship on scanners sometimes => Lorian's Enterprise.
I know, I'm not totally fine with this myself, but it would be quite ironical, that jumping back in time for 117 years has "caused" the first attack => time paradoxon.

A causality loop, huh? Interesting. No, my primary complaint revolves around the sheer stupidity of sending a scaled-down mini-weapon to attack the humans, kill several million of them, and thus, piss those Terrans off. Far wiser, IMO, to wait until your Death Star is fully armed and operational, and then attack.

But truthfully, despite season 3 generally being my favorite season of the show (s1 was mediocre, s2 mostly sucked, and s4 honked me off with the inane TnT angst as well as too much Super!Archer), I'll be the first to admit it's chock full of plot holes you could drive a naval task group through.