Vulcan Arc

[Rigil Kent]

On the contrary. The roll in the hay destroyed their friendship. They got along very well, but when she tackled him, there were only two ways to continue and that was a comitted relationship, at least if Trip's view on the topic is anything like mine or to break it off.

Which is one of the reasons I'm so often negative about the writing on the show post-"Harbinger." Granted, it doesn't particularly surprise me that they went this direction - it is Hollywood, after all, and they're pretty much devoid of originality; look at any show these days with attractive characters & they inevitably follow the same format - but it was more than a little frustrating. As I've stated in the past, realistically, I think 90% of the guys I know if placed in Trip's position would have walked away from T'Pol after what she pulled in "Harbinger" and been more than a little pissed off at her. This could (and possibly would) have led him to doing something stupid (e.g. Amanda Cole), and the relationship between TnT would have been even more tense and/or fractured than it actually was (I'm thinking exactly how he was immediately following her wedding.) And that means that the possibility of TnT would have either been ended completely, or she would have had to be the one doing the chasing for a change (which I've always thought would have been funny as hell to watch.)

Instead, though, we got Trip continuing to pursue her and, by the time "Countdown" rolled around, they seemed to have mostly repaired that breach her morning after rejection caused. JMHO.

[Alelou]

I agree, in the real world. The only good excuse for this is that...

1) Trip really gets her, even he's not totally conscious of it.

2) She can't help sending out a bunch of subtle clues that she's still crazy for him.

3) Their friendship is important enough to both of them to set aside the heartache.

4) Maybe there really is an incipient bond there.

5) By his nature, Trip may be a bit pathological in the willing-to-take-shit department.

[Rigil Kent]

By his nature, Trip may be a bit pathological in the willing-to-take-shit department.

Good Lord, but that's true, ain't it? Between her & Archer, he took so much crap ...

[Alelou]

Yeah, he really did.

[honeybee]

Not only is he willing to take shit (he does have a history of bad relationships) - he's in love with a woman who is from a profoundly different culture than his. She's not supposed to be in love with him, she's not supposed to feel anything. She's never been in a relationship. I like to think he's compassionate about this and might even feel a little responsible for some of the turmoil she's in. He's not mad at her in E2 - he seems concerned. The day after Harbinger he doesn't seem devastated, just a little let down. He does give her that - yeah right, look.

He never seems really hurt until the post-Home episodes, more evidence of stuff that must have gone on on that transport to Vulcan.

[Silverbullet]

You are right, Rigel, moost guys would have walked after she had jumped his bones the night before and then telling him to get lost the next day. Other than some guy who would ask her to come in and tie hime up and use the Cat of Nine Tails on him the next night. As it is Trip seems to have no male pride at all. He has door mat branded on his forehead.

(I heard somewher ethat Conner asked the writers to give Trip back his backbone)

[WarpGirl]

Yes. I am saying that before "Harbinger" and having sex, their relationship was not close enough for her to issue an invitation for him to come to Vulcan, especially one he had to fish for by claiming he had nowhere to go, and especially not one where he'd ask where he'd be staying and what he'd be introduced to her mother as.

Agreed. They were friends prior to "Harbinger," and we know that both of them were attracted to each other, but it was inadequate to merit an invitation like this, particularly since T'Pol is Vulcan. Prior to the hot Vulcan lovin', they were only friends. After? Well, that changed things considerably...

OMG that makes me despair of all humanity. Support, respect, genuine friendship, coupled with romantic feelings (although unacknowleged) isn't enough without sex!!!! God how dismal. .

Not only is he willing to take shit (he does have a history of bad relationships) - he's in love with a woman who is from a profoundly different culture than his. She's not supposed to be in love with him, she's not supposed to feel anything. She's never been in a relationship. I like to think he's compassionate about this and might even feel a little responsible for some of the turmoil she's in. He's not mad at her in E2 - he seems concerned. The day after Harbinger he doesn't seem devastated, just a little let down. He does give her that - yeah right, look.

He never seems really hurt until the post-Home episodes, more evidence of stuff that must have gone on on that transport to Vulcan.

I agree with this, which I think that their relationship before Harbinger is enough reason to go on that trip together. Trip is compassionate and T'Pol does care deeply for him with or without sex.

[aadarshinah]

I'd love to agree with you, WG, but sex drives everything. In my ideal universe, it would be as you say, but, if the universe worked like that... well, we'd probably have never evolved this far.

[honeybee]

You're right, aadarshinah. Sex, which is something most adults do and enjoy, amps everything up, and underneath all that logic, Vulcans are more passionate than humans. Although it was definitely left open, sex, especially after Habinger, certainly explains why T'Pol is so resistant to marry Koss, why T'Les is freaking out in her Vulcan way, why Koss is so jealous of Trip in his Vulcan way and why both TnT are so heartbroken in that episode. I'm of a mind that she's as heartbroken as he is, but she's trying to do the right thing by the rules which she's supposed to live by. The energy isn't - we used to date but we're friends in those Home scenes. It's we're having amazing sex and we are madly in love, we just haven't admitted the second part out loud.

I also take T'Les's "romantically involved" line to make it clear that they are friends that had a one night stand, but in a romantic relationship, which to me strongly implies sex.

[WarpGirl]

Well I'm glad that in my own life I know for a fact that isn't always true. Because I wouldn't want to live a life where that was always true. Sex isn't bad but it isn't the end all and be all, of relationships.

Where was Koss jealous? I didn't see him as jealous at all. He stated the facts but there wasn't even a raised eyebrow when Trip answered the door.

As for T'Les whoes to say she wasn't assuming, Trip only said that he thought T'Pol didn't tell her anything. Mother's do that to trap people into confessing.

[honeybee]

Many of us, I think will attest to the fact that sex two people who deeply love one another is possibly the greatest, most beautiful thing in life and makes our short time on this planet bearable. There's a reason that many religions think it's sacred. I think that must especially be true for Vulcans, who are so deprived of physical and emotional affection despite their buried passions.

Hey, it's time for my obligatory shout out to one of CW's Vulcan stories. This time, Besu T'sa-veh It's got a beautiful portrayal of how the bond works between a Vulcan married couple and how it helps them maintain that external control.

There's a reason Old T'Pol tells T'Pol she needs to seek an outlet for her emotions in Trip. A bond, fueled by physical affection, love and sex, would help her keep control rather than the stopping and starting we saw - which arguably made things worse for her.

In the early chapters of Family Secrets, I had all the sex being a way that both of them were dealing with grief. The physical relationship combined with the bond to make them able to share their grief and be supportive of one another in a profound way. That's one of the reasons that story belonged in decon - because I wanted to reader to understand how the body, mind & spirit union dynamic flowed between them.

[Kotik]

5) By his nature, Trip may be a bit pathological in the willing-to-take-shit department.

It's not a question of maybe, but definitely. I'm so hooked on TnT, because it almost mirrors my own life (except the contrived angst of season 4). I only had 2 relationships in my life and both ended in desaster. (Sounds familiar, this). I belong to the group of men, who take almost any shit from the women they love. I actually did that for 4 years. She gave me shit, I was hurt as hell and came back for more. I think Trip is the one of the two, who has been written halfway credible up until the end of home.
He took what she'd done to him remarkably (and unrealistically) easy. I don't know, am I the only one who would have expected both of them to be seriously affected by it? He just seemed to shrug it off, which is unrealistic. Everything after "Home" is giving me rabies. Manny Coto wrote some great episodes, like the Babel arc, but the TnT relationship and it's depiction was just shy of character assasination.

[honeybee]

Well, some people might see "cold, calculating female manipulation" - but I see a recovering drug addict, unaccustomed and ashamed of her emotions, torn between two cultures, dealing with her mother's violent death on top of learning everything she had been taught as the foundation of her culture was a lie/misinterpretation. Trip was rightfully hurt by the fact that she didn't jump back into his arms after Koss left, but given everything she had gone through - she was certainly entitled to take a little time to sort things out. In fact, jumping into his arms without being sure of her own feelings and desires would have been irresponsible and cruel, if things had not worked out. T'Pol and Trip did have one thing in common, they nearly always tried to do the right thing. It's just that neither of them were in a position to know what that was most of the time.

[pdsldl]

5) By his nature, Trip may be a bit pathological in the willing-to-take-shit department.

It's not a question of maybe, but definitely. I'm so hooked on TnT, because it almost mirrors my own life (except the contrived angst of season 4). I only had 2 relationships in my life and both ended in desaster. (Sounds familiar, this). I belong to the group of men, who take almost any shit from the women they love. I actually did that for 4 years. She gave me shit, I was hurt as hell and came back for more. I think Trip is the one of the two, who has been written halfway credible up until the end of home.
He took what she'd done to him remarkably (and unrealistically) easy. I don't know, am I the only one who would have expected both of them to be seriously affected by it? He just seemed to shrug it off, which is unrealistic. Everything after "Home" is giving me rabies. Manny Coto wrote some great episodes, like the Babel arc, but the TnT relationship and it's depiction was just shy of character assasination.

Not saying I don't agree that the TnT relationship was handled badly and the forced angst was over the top but I never thought he shrugged anything off. He buried his feelings just like he always did. He loved her and was trying to be understanding. He even told her he was proud of what she did. And he'd already said he didn't want to make it any harder for her. Doesn't mean it didn't affect him but he just kept it private and tried to maintain some connection to her. Also if the bond had already begun to form there may have been some influence on his thought and feelings there. Just because we didn't see his heartache on the screen there were indications that he was deeply affected.

[Kotik]

Trip was rightfully hurt by the fact that she didn't jump back into his arms after Koss left, but given everything she had gone through - she was certainly entitled to take a little time to sort things out. In fact, jumping into his arms without being sure of her own feelings and desires would have been irresponsible and cruel, if things had not worked out. T'Pol and Trip did have one thing in common, they nearly always tried to do the right thing. It's just that neither of them were in a position to know what that was most of the time.

I don't know. I think there's a slight difference between jumping back in his arms and accepting his offer to help. No one else, but her old counterpart on E2 had explained to her, that Trip is the key to mastering her emotions and troubles. The complete shut-out in "Daedalus" was neither right nor logical IMHO.