Kind of wife TPol would be?

The bread and butter!

Moderators: justTripn, Elessar, dark_rain

User avatar
honeybee
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby honeybee » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:55 pm

If you read my original post, WG, I did say that I believe they would care for each other physically and they would need to negotiate various cultural expectations. I didn't think that would be sexist. I said if it came to henpecking and controlling, I would object to that and rightfully was cautioning toward an extreme and old-fashioned manifestation of gender roles.

But I do believe that Trip would take care of himself and need very little prodding in order to keep himself healthy.

Now, this isn't to say that they wouldn't do things in an effort to please each other. T'Pol may be inclined to wear Trip's favorite color...or Trip may learn how to make spaghetti with tofu instead of meatballs...but these are positive influences and compromises, not negative "do it my way or you're spending the night on the couch" emotional blackmail. I have to be honest and say I don't care much for fics that depict one as being controlling over the other. That's not who they are as characters, and that's not what their relationship is about, IMHO.



Absolutely, it's the difference between controlling and affection. I see them both wanting to please each other, but any changes are self-motivated changes rather than one wanting to force the other into conformity. And I see things as fluid. Trip is going to behave more Vulcan when they are on Vulcan, and she'll help him. But he'll still be human. She'll be more open to human behaviors while around humans, and when it comes to socializing with his family and such, he'll help her.
Now Playing: Embers, Spark, Flame the Prequel to Family Secrets

Image

Avatar made by Hopeful Romantic! Thanks!

User avatar
WarpGirl
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 9885
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:02 pm
Location: In A State Of Constant Confusion

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:00 pm

If that were the case than Phlox would not be on his back about his sleeping habits, (even when the ship is not a mess) or his habit of being the number 1 patient in sickbay. Some people need more "taking care of" than others and some men can't exist without it.

As for "outmoded sexist gender rolls" shouldn't it be up to the couple what those rolls are, and who fills them?
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
Fics
May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us
*Rights,* Wrongs, and Choices

User avatar
Rigil Kent
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:32 am
Show On Map: No
Location: Elsewhere. Elsewhen.
Contact:

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby Rigil Kent » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:03 pm

WarpGirl wrote:If that were the case than Phlox would not be on his back about his sleeping habits, (even when the ship is not a mess) or his habit of being the number 1 patient in sickbay.

With the first, you need to examine the circumstances - post Lizzie & Xindi attack - since its clearly not replicated in season 4, and the second ... well, I think that's fanon because Trip isn't in sickbay more than Archer or T'Pol. To be honest, I think she may actually be tied with him for the number of times in sickbay.
"Go, and find the pit where these snakes hide. And be merciless." - Lorenzo de'Medici, Assassin's Creed: Lineage

Sig by Chrisis1033.

Image

User avatar
honeybee
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby honeybee » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:09 pm

Yes. And the couple in question is Trip and T'Pol, both of whom are intelligent, self-reliant people - and I simply don't see her needing or wanting to henpeck or control. I see them wanting to take care of each other and themselves in a positive, forward-thinking way.

I'm especially offended by the persistent stereotype of Trip somehow being a lazy, slob unable to manage his own health, eating habits and dress. As people have pointed out, the one consistent negative in his behavior is his working too hard and denying himself sleep. And as Rigil has helpfully pointed out, that's primarily manifested in the third season - when the ship was in crisis.

I would see her gently suggesting he get sleep and offering neuropressure to help him. But I see him respecting and listening to her and wanting to change his habits because he wants to live as long as possible. I don't see him having to be micro-managed on every little detail or it being her job to do so. I can see him suggesting meditation, if he thinks she needs it. But these would be suggestions, not demands.
Now Playing: Embers, Spark, Flame the Prequel to Family Secrets

Image

Avatar made by Hopeful Romantic! Thanks!

User avatar
aadarshinah
Captain
Captain
Posts: 875
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby aadarshinah » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:18 pm

Firstly (though I know it's not directly related to the topic), there are times when I want to sit down and count the numer of times throughout Trek when there are a) alternate/parallel universes involved, b) time travel, c) various charecters wind up in sickbay, d) people turning into other species do to strange viriuses, e) disimbodied lifeforms, and f) first contacts which wind up with the away team imprisioned for one reason or another.

Secondly, it all depends on the circumstances. Were something like the Xindi attack were to happen again, causing Trip to loose someone close to him and not sleep as a result of it, I can see T'Pol doing as WG said and be a little more... insistant... than is usual about Trip resting properly. And, if for some reason the situation was reversed, I can see Trip doing the same. I don't think it's controlling or sexist or whatnot, it's just what people do for each other when they care. But thus is the general feel of the thread, I think...

Anyway, the only "bad" habits that really needed "nagging" from either one of them is Trip's sleeping habits in season 3. It's hardly fair to base a prediction of an entire relationship on actions undertaken when one member of the pair is in extreme distress in an already stressful position.

User avatar
Aquarius
Site Admin
Posts: 4079
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:23 am
Location: B.F.E.
Contact:

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby Aquarius » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:43 pm

Kotik wrote:
Aquarius wrote:As for his choice of wardrobe...again, Trip is a big boy and I can't see T'Pol not allowing him to make his own choices. Sure, T'Pol may give him the eyebrow over some of those loud Hawaiian print shirts, but it would hardly be grounds for alienation of affection. And yes, I believe T'Pol would be very affectionate toward Trip--not publicly, but through the bond, and behind closed doors. Trip would never have reason to doubt just how much she loves him.


As Trip stated at the start of "Fallen Hero", he wore those shirts "to get noticed". Being married to T'Pol would most likely obliterate any reason to wear them. I would guess he'd make more sensible choices, probably steering more towards clothing that T'Pol finds agreeable.

Aquarius wrote:Now, this isn't to say that they wouldn't do things in an effort to please each other. T'Pol may be inclined to wear Trip's favorite color...or Trip may learn how to make spaghetti with tofu instead of meatballs...but these are positive influences and compromises, not negative "do it my way or you're spending the night on the couch" emotional blackmail. I have to be honest and say I don't care much for fics that depict one as being controlling over the other. That's not who they are as characters, and that's not what their relationship is about, IMHO.


I think they would both try to please the other and with the bond they also know what pleases the other most (in and outside the bed). The "couching" is - as you wrote - emotional blackmail and at least IMHO, completely unacceptable. Neither T'Pol nor Trip would resort to such methods. I would never accept a partner, who does that.


Everyone wears something to "get noticed" at one time or another, however a person's taste in clothing is usually still their taste in clothing whether they're in a relationship or not. Trip is from Florida, he's a diver...I tend to think tropical beachy things are part of his personality rather than a mere affectation to make himself "date bait".
Eian built my avatar! Banner by Misplaced!

Image

User avatar
Silverbullet
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 3507
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:38 pm
Show On Map: No
Location: Casa Grande , Arizona

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby Silverbullet » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:47 pm

I do thank all of you for your comments

In unexpected T'Pol gave Trip unshirted Hell for getting Pregnant implying he had done the dirty with the Female engineer. In oasis she was jealous of the young woman and reminded trip of the female engineer. she stalked off then. In Precious Cargo, (people have said ) that she looked Pissed about the Princess when she saw Trip an the Princess in the water. Trip in his skivvies. In Harbinger she was jealous of cole, staked her claim by seducing him. It was only in season four where she seemed to show concern for him (observer effect).

That seems to be a bit aggresive in her attitue towards him. she seemed to think of him as her Porperty early on.

Sb
I am Retired. Having a good time IS my job


Image

User avatar
panyasan
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Farel moon, Dosa system

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby panyasan » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:01 pm

Rigil Kent wrote:
panyasan wrote:About coffee drinking: there is a very entertaining scene in one of the stories that Rigel Kent wrote when Archer comments on the fact that Trip drinks tea instead of coffee. "She got you drinking tea now?" Great line. Appartently T'Pol thought too much coffee is bad for Trips health, which is true.

Truthfully, that was just intended as a funny one-liner and not indicative of any controlling aspects.
I got that - it was just one of those memorable scenes of Endeavour- like that funny scene when T'Pol and Trip tell Archer Reed walking in to them, the intense scene between Soval and Tolaris, that scene when you think T'Pol is talking and it ends up to be Trips mother and half other scenes that made me love Endeavour.

Okay, back to the topic - SB - I agree T'Pol acts jalours - but I don't think she sees him as his property. That's a different thing. Sometime you can't help being jalours - especially when you attracted to a guy and you try very hard to deny it.
Last edited by panyasan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Love is a verb.

Chapter 18 of Word of Ice is up!

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8522099/18/World-of-Ice

The Naked Truth and other necessities of life

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12056258/1 ... es-of-life

EntAllat
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:14 am
Google Talk: EntAllat
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby EntAllat » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:03 pm

Alelou wrote:I hope SB isn't feeling slammed on this. I think the generations truly have split in this area, for one major reason: up until the sixties it was just assumed that the wife would be IN CHARGE of food -- purchasing, preparing, etc. There was a clear division of labor. After women started working too, that changed. So it boggles our mind that one spouse might attempt to dictate this to the other, but I do think it was a quite common phenomenon in the past.


Good point. My apologies to Silverbullet if my opinion came on like a slam.

It's true - the expected gender roles in relationships have changed a lot from my parents generation to my grandparents and then to my own. You can even see subtle hints of those changes in differences between TOS and TNG. Certainly the consensus seems to be that TnT (and therefore T'Pol as a wife) reflects a newer sensibility. One thing's for sure - we've enthusiastically answered SB's original question. :-)

User avatar
WarpGirl
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 9885
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:02 pm
Location: In A State Of Constant Confusion

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:18 pm

Well Trip's sleeping habits were never all that good. He tells Kov he averages 6 hours a night, I remember Archer telling him he needed to rest, or eat several times in Seasons 1 & 2. To be blunt if he wasn't in the 22nd century with wonderous medical technology and the FI in Sci-fi was smaller, Trip would not be a healthy man considering the abuse his body went through in four years. Also in Bound he wasn't sleeping and having headaches. I know because of "the bond" however he already dealt with those issues long before. It probably just aggrivated the problem. Human biology is not made for that type of abuse.

But yes T'Pol was just as bad off, although she didn't have a recurring habit of denying herself food and rest even when times were "safe."
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
Fics
May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us
*Rights,* Wrongs, and Choices

User avatar
justTripn
Consigliere
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:12 pm
Show On Map: No
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby justTripn » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:18 pm

Aquarius said:
Yes, things have changed. And I think that, in order to write characters that ring true to the ones we saw in the show, we have to remember that Trip and T'Pol weren't created a long time ago with the intention of entertaining an older generation. They were created recently with modern ideas and values in mind. To ignore the cultural and historical context in which a show and its characters were created leaves one open to misinterpretations--and by cultural and historical context, I don't mean when the show is set, I mean the circumstances and events that were affecting the audience it was created for. Enterprise was not written or broadcast at the same time as Leave it to Beaver; they have completely different social and historical contexts.


To play devil's advocate, and because I think there is some truth to it, while there has been alot of changes over the years (THANK GOODNESS) men are men. Trip strikes me as a typical guy and I expect typical guy behavior out of him. Some of stereotypical male behavior is NOT time/culture specific. I remember staying overnight with a Hmong family in a refugee camp. This was at the end of my stay in Thailand and I could finally understand the language somewhat. Hmong people come from isolated hilltops in Laos. They were not exposed to Western culture or even TV. Aspects of my visit were exotic. The family I was staying with was polygomous: There was one husband and two wives. The little boy slept with his grandparents on a bamboo bed with no mattress. Other aspects of the visit were straight out of an American sitcom, in particular the conversation between the grandparents that I could overhear. They gave me the key to the outhouse so I could get to the bathroom at night. Then as they went to bed I could hear this conversation clear as day.

Grouchy grandfather voice: "I don't see why you gave here the key to the bathroom! I knew she was staying, but you didn't tell me you would give away the key to the bathroom!"

Soothing grandmother voice: "Oh, there there. She needs it and you'll be fine. It's just for one night. She seems very nice . . ."

and so on with the grumble, grumble from the grandfather and squelched by soothing, nurturing words from the grandmother. I remember thinking, "This is like my mom and dad exactly."

The next morning the grandmother came over and sat on the edge of my bed and told me all about how she and the grandfather had escaped from Laos, patting my leg like a grandmother, while the grandfather stalked past us and went and peed off the front porch (I suppose to emphasis his annoyance with me having the key to the bathroom).

To summarize, part of this is human nature. Trip seems kind of old fashioned to me. "Ma'am" and all that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if sterotypical gender roles persist way into the future. In fact, it is canon that they do (the Original Series).
I'm donating my body to science fiction.

User avatar
Silverbullet
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 3507
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:38 pm
Show On Map: No
Location: Casa Grande , Arizona

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby Silverbullet » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:19 pm

Generational change. In 50's sitcoms it was not strange to se the husband banished to the couch. since in those sitcoms people slept in twin beds. None of this sleeping in a bed together. so he is tossed out of the bedroom. Of coure husbands were depicted as putting up with a buble head for a wife on occasion.

Burns and allen had a comedy radio program which carried on ito Tv. He was the straight man and sensible she was scattterbrained. Not only did she not know when to come in out of the rain she didn't even know it was raining.

There were no Kick Ass females. Ony damsels in distress in that era. Whore with a heart of gold who always met a bad end.

roles began to change at the end of the 50's into the 60's and so on in to today's gender roles.


I guess this may explain why soe of my stoires seme a bit funny because of the way I write the females. sorry
I am Retired. Having a good time IS my job


Image

User avatar
Rigil Kent
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:32 am
Show On Map: No
Location: Elsewhere. Elsewhen.
Contact:

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby Rigil Kent » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:26 pm

WarpGirl wrote:Well Trip's sleeping habits were never all that good. He tells Kov he averages 6 hours a night,

So? I average about that and I'm healthy. Everyone is different and he could just be wired to only need that much sleep. I knew a guy in the Army who couldn't sleep more than 4 hours every day, no matter how tired he was.
I remember Archer telling him he needed to rest, or eat several times in Seasons 1 & 2.

And in each instance, I'm pretty sure that there was a ship emergency involved that he was ultra focused on. If anything, Trip is a workaholic, which is the real problem.
To be blunt if he wasn't in the 22nd century with wonderous medical technology and the FI in Sci-fi was smaller, Trip would not be a healthy man considering the abuse his body went through in four years.

And with all due respect, that stands for every single character in Trek (or any other television) lore. The human (or non-human) body and mind simply couldn't handle half of the abuse fictional characters on television go through, so that argument doesn't really work for me. If it wasn't purely fictional, the entire cast would have needed to be replaced (with the possible exception of Phlox, I think) by the end of season 1 thanks to said abuse, but the same holds true for all of the characters on Stargate: SG-1 or NCIS or ... well ... pick an ensemble show.
"Go, and find the pit where these snakes hide. And be merciless." - Lorenzo de'Medici, Assassin's Creed: Lineage

Sig by Chrisis1033.

Image

User avatar
honeybee
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby honeybee » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:33 pm

Sometimes, TOS is bewildering in its sexism - even though GR created "Number One" in the pilot as the almost gender, neutral intellectual, logical female. He wanted the uniforms to be gender neutral as in TNG as well. And although TPTB claim "focus groups of women" were the ones who hated Number One and caused her ouster - I have a few friends who study media from back then, and they say the focus groups of that era were usually put together to reinforce with the male executives thought was true. But, I always try and look at TOS as a product of its own era. ENT was also a product of its era, and it reflects the amazing strides made.

And while I agree that some gender dynamics exists as a function of biology and will always exist, a healthy society allows them to remain fluid rather than codifying them into a rigid system of stereotypes and proscribed roles. The beauty of this pairing is that they both initially see the surface of one another and both learn that they were wrong about one another.
Now Playing: Embers, Spark, Flame the Prequel to Family Secrets

Image

Avatar made by Hopeful Romantic! Thanks!

User avatar
WarpGirl
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 9885
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:02 pm
Location: In A State Of Constant Confusion

Re: Kind of wife TPol would be?

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:50 pm

Rigil Kent wrote:So? I average about that and I'm healthy. Everyone is different and he could just be wired to only need that much sleep. I knew a guy in the Army who couldn't sleep more than 4 hours every day, no matter how tired he was.


I myself average 3-4 hours of sleep a night. And although I'm not dying of it, NONE of my many doctors say its healthy. According to the general consences, less than 7 hours is not good.

Rigil Kent wrote:And in each instance, I'm pretty sure that there was a ship emergency involved that he was ultra focused on. If anything, Trip is a workaholic, which is the real problem.


Absolutely Trip is a workaholic. And it is a problem. But I'm pretty sure there was one instance where Trip was just working on a non-emergency problem that he just wanted to solve. Nothing to do with the safety of the ship or the crew.


Rigil Kent wrote:And with all due respect, that stands for every single character in Trek (or any other television) lore. The human (or non-human) body and mind simply couldn't handle half of the abuse fictional characters on television go through, so that argument doesn't really work for me. If it wasn't purely fictional, the entire cast would have needed to be replaced (with the possible exception of Phlox, I think) by the end of season 1 thanks to said abuse, but the same holds true for all of the characters on Stargate: SG-1 or NCIS or ... well ... pick an ensemble show.


You are absolutely right. Which is why I pointed out that it WAS fiction.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
Fics
May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us
*Rights,* Wrongs, and Choices


Return to “Trip and T'Pol Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 50 guests