Interesting article

[evcake]

I wonder how old these pedophiles are. TOS was a long time ago.

[JadziaKathryn]

There was an interesting comment about that - basically saying pedophiles are trying to recreate childhood and TOS is part of that childhood.

I don't know. I don't know at all. It's strange, but life is strange.

[CoffeeCat]

I dunno, Rigel. Spock/Chapel is almost as bad as AinT. It irritates me to tears the way Chapel would obsess over Spock. It was almost like she was stalking him. If I had a choice between K/S and S/C, I'd choose K/S because I'd feel more comfortable knowing Spock was actually loved instead of preyed on by some woman who can't even respect herself to know it's time to move on and get over it.

I didn't say I was likely to "ship" for Chapel/Spock, merely that it would be easier for me to envision them together than Kirk/Spock. See, I'm gonna have to root for Spock and that Romulan commander.

The only TOS 'ship I ever came close to rooting for was MU Spock and that Marlana chick (I never bothered to learn how to spell her last name).

Anyhow, as a fellow conservative I was wondering what you think of gay people - were they born that way or were they psychologically conditioned to be that way?

And as far as it being established that they were het: Canon showed them both having their "moments" with the alien!chick!oftheweek(tm), but then again - gay people can go for years in and out of relationships with people of the opposite gender until they finally either just realize they're gay or already knew they were gay and simply decide to come out of the closet.


Anyhow - that was a really interesting and smart article. I had to bookmark it.

[JadziaKathryn]

Anyhow, as a fellow conservative I was wondering what you think of gay people - were they born that way or were they psychologically conditioned to be that way?

Oh boy. Please, I beg you, at the very least do that in another thread.

[Rigil Kent]

Anyhow, as a fellow conservative I was wondering what you think of gay people - were they born that way or were they psychologically conditioned to be that way?

Honestly, I've never given it any thought. As I'm happily heterosexual, I've never really cared one way or the other apart from getting annoyed at the homosexuals who seem to have that weird urge to tell everyone that they're gay, and that I better approve, and that they demand special treatment while insisting that they're no different from a heterosexual person, and while they're at it, how dare I look at a man and not think sexual thoughts about him. Those people irk me. But then, the heterosexuals who do the inverse irk me too.

And as far as it being established that they were het: Canon showed them both having their "moments" with the alien!chick!oftheweek(tm), but then again - gay people can go for years in and out of relationships with people of the opposite gender until they finally either just realize they're gay or already knew they were gay and simply decide to come out of the closet.

And there was absolutely no indication of such a thing in canon. Hence, it's OOC.

[CoffeeCat]

Rigel - it's only Canon that they never came out of the closet if they were in love with each other. But as you said, it's also canon that they may actually have been het - therefore eliminating the need to come out of the closet.

But it's still open for speculation and critical analysis by any fan who turns on their TV and watches them. It's kind of like *the_abomination* - just as there are so many workarounds that you can't possibly take at face value that Trip actually died in such a stupid manner, there is much subtext and workarounds for K/S 'shippers - probably more in favor of them than there are for C/7 who actually shared a few on screen kisses


JZK, LOL, I couldn't help it. His response made me curious enough to ask.
(and I know - I'm just asking for trouble, aren't I?)

[evcake]

Perhaps a tendency to become mired in any fantasy is just another addictive behavior. *cough* Usually harmless, of course.*cough*

As to gay folks, having lived and worked with many, they seem just like other folks to me. Some nice, some not. I remember my gay friends in college as being more amusing than the straight ones, with a sharp, biting wit. But I may have chosen them for that. More of them seemed to choose me than straight people did, too.
I also noticed a tendency in lesbians to feel a solidarity with the oppressed, and to be more political. Again, that may just have been the ones I met.

[Rigil Kent]

Rigel - it's only Canon that they never came out of the closet if they were in love with each other.

That ... makes no sense to me. It's making the argument that, even though there is evidence against something happening, and that this something didn't happen on the show, it could have happened. It'd be like arguing that Archer could have hooked up with Phlox, or maybe Soval or Shran. There is no evidence to support any claim that the characters are gay, and, in fact, boatloads of evidence to contest that assertion. If there is one thing I freak out over, it's when characters start acting wildly OOC. Case in point: my many and numerous complaints about the ENT finale.

And it's Rigil, with two I's. No E's. As in Rigil Kentaurus.

[evcake]

I've been doing some reading about slash. Oh, the sites I have seen. I've got to learn to bookmark.

[CoffeeCat]

Rigil - what evidence against it?

[Rigil Kent]

Are you serious or are you just trying to get me to expound? The fact that Kirk was a ladies man and very much enjoyed looking at the female members of his crew (seen on numerous instances through TOS). The fact that Spock was kind of a ladies man too. The fact that, when Spock was in the grip of pon farr and his control was weakened, he didn't try to rip off Kirk's clothes and have his way with him. The fact that in Generations, while in that technobabbly place where his dreams could come true, Kirk was with a woman.

And given the fact that the Federation is an (cough*unrealistic*cough) idealized utopia where IDIC rules, why would they need to be "in the closet" in the first place? I'd think that that sort of thing would be no big deal in that society, so the argument that they're "in the closet" doesn't make any sense to me.

Frankly, I don't see why there can't be this deep, deep friendship (that is a form of love) between the two men in question without it having to be turned into something romantic when all of the evidence points against it being romantic.

And I still don't understand why het women write or read this stuff. But whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

As an aside, I once theorized to a friend of mine that if they really wanted to have Archer stand out as a unique captain, they should have made him gay. But, knowing the Beebs, they'd have just offended the gay community instead.

And we've gone wildly off topic...

[CoffeeCat]

Are you serious or are you just trying to get me to expound?

No, I'm not serious and I did want you to expound, only because I'm curious on what other people think about it.

[Rigil Kent]

Well, you know me. Ask me what I think about something and I'll tell ya.

[CoffeeCat]

And you should know by now that I'm rarely serious...

[evcake]

Well, here is one of the sites. I selected for lack feminist content.
http://fandomlinks.wordpress.com/tag/slash/why-slash/