Imagine: ENT entering its final season

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

On a somewhat depressing note, I thought what many of us would probably do now had ENT not been cancelled. This summer of '07 would've been filled with speculations and spoilers regarding the final (?) seventh season, soon to begin airing.

Now imagine if ENT hadn't been cancelled what do you think this coming last season would've entailed (of course *the_abomination* would never have been made)? And on a related note, what to you wish would happen? Those aren't exactly the same questions.

Had TPTB gone by the approximate formula of one season=one year then the seventh season would only be in 2157 and not the year when the Federation was formed after the Earth/Romulan War (2161). So do you think they would stick to this and saved the war for later (movies maybe)?

Personally I think that B&B deliberately started ENT in 2151 so it could end before the war had the show run seven seasons. Then they'd have free hands in doing the war in another incarnation of the franchise, perhaps, but by now means certain, with all or some of the ENT actors.

But with the mandated and successful shake-up in season three and then in season four with Manny Coto at the helm those plans might have gone out the window. So I think it might be probable that they'd try and do the war with Coto, unless the studio said otherwise. After all, Coto was setting it up with his Vulcan and Romulan arcs.

But would they do the war over three whole seasons? They might, since some fanon states that it began in the year 2156. However, my view is that Starfleet is still to puny to make it, which is why I would put the start of the war in late 2157. That would give Earth the time to build at least some more ships (a plan originally put into effect after the Xindi fiasco).

Given "only" three more seasons, I'd put them to use as follows:

• ENT Season Five (2155-2156)
  Further adventures of the Enterprise mostly delving into the same prequel stuff as season four. Throw in some Romulan incursions and shenanigans, Orion pirates etc.
• ENT Season Six (2157-2158)
  Same as above but crank up the Romulan threat. Then end the mid-season with a cliffhanger as the war starts.
• ENT Season Seven (2159-2161)
  Full blown out war season. The war ends (battle of Cheron) just a couple of episodes before the finale. Then have a final mini-arc dealing with the foundation of the Federation.

Oh, to get the most of stories I'd like a return to 26 episodes per season. I know Bakula wanted fewer for family reasons, but they could easily promote him to Commodore/Admiral during the war so he'd not appear as often.

So what's your take?

[Elessar]

I agree... I also like the Bakula solution. He would probably be promoted, AND, he would be able to therefore appear less often. T'Pol would be next in line to command the Enterprise, but does anyone think Starfleet would not want her b/c she's Vulcan, even though she's commissioned in Starfleet now?

Since they don't like (so they say, of course Worf/Dax and Torres/Paris disputes it) doing onscreen romances that carry on and are just NORMAL, they'd probably have to find a way to give Trip and T'Pol more drama, but that wouldn't be hard. It would be only natural that if T'Pol were in command they could develop some "I'm in command I can't be involved with anyone under my command" stuff with Trip, which is actually, IMO, a good point. But eventually, they'd leave the command, maybe at/near the end of the Romulan War and then they'd resume their romance . I mean as long as they end up together in the end, I don't have a problem with an interlude for real life to interfere. I think in many cases, for us standing aside, it just makes the final romance all that much sweeter.

I've had some ideas lately about what everybody would do after the war and all that stuff. I'm working on finalizing it into a fic actually.

But yeah, KTR, I feel your pain man, massively. They could even have made the season finish in a cliffhanger at the end of Season 7 and then done a mini like Farscape. That mini could have been like a Federation-building series. Would have been fkin awesome.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

T'Pol would be next in line to command the Enterprise, but does anyone think Starfleet would not want her b/c she's Vulcan, even though she's commissioned in Starfleet now?

Somehow I doubt it.

Since they don't like (so they say, of course Worf/Dax and Torres/Paris disputes it) doing onscreen romances that carry on and are just NORMAL, they'd probably have to find a way to give Trip and T'Pol more drama, but that wouldn't be hard. It would be only natural that if T'Pol were in command they could develop some "I'm in command I can't be involved with anyone under my command" stuff with Trip, which is actually, IMO, a good point. But eventually, they'd leave the command, maybe at/near the end of the Romulan War and then they'd resume their romance . I mean as long as they end up together in the end, I don't have a problem with an interlude for real life to interfere. I think in many cases, for us standing aside, it just makes the final romance all that much sweeter.

Gah! Please, no more angst! For once I'd like to see a couple have a relationship and not postpone it again!

I think I'd have Trip made captain of the Enterprise when Archer got promoted. Then they might carry on a relationship like in Rigil's Endeavour. Or maybe T'Pol could be transfered off the ship, to a Starfleet research project vital for the war effort, or maybe as liason to Vulcan to try and convince her homeworld to join the war?

TnT could still meet and have adventures together. At any rate I picture the Romulan stories as not being so ship-bound (i.e. set onboard the Enterprise) - much like Babylon 5 weren't always set on the station.

They could even have made the season finish in a cliffhanger at the end of Season 7 and then done a mini like Farscape. That mini could have been like a Federation-building series. Would have been fkin awesome.

That's a neat idea. That would mean more war episodes and then a cool mini to launch the new Federation.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

So... no one else wants to chime in?

Here I hoped to start a discussion about the show instead of the divisive political talk...

[Linda]

I think the last three three seasons would have shown us the formation of the federation. Was it only four planetary civilizations (Vulcan, Earth, Andoria, Telar)? I get the impression that these were the major founding worlds. I would like to have seen more on the cultures of these four worlds interacting and overcoming their differences to come to the point were a federation would work.

I would like a little less on the Romulan war than what others here seem to want. Yes, it should be a factor, but I had a little too much with a whole season arc on the Xindi conflict. It would be interesting to see how the other three founding federation worlds were reacting to what canon has suggested was an Earth/Romulan war. Or is that canon that it was mainly Earth against the Romulans?

Anyway, a focus on the forming of the federation would give us all kinds of ideas for episodes. For one thing, how to remake Starfleet which was basically Earth's 'space navy' into an interplanetary force. That would lead into expanding Starfleet Academy also into an interplanetary military college. Then there are the issues of trade within the federation vs outside of it. And cooperation on technological development - how to get over the secrets each world was keeping and coming to an agreement to share technology. How about accomodations for biological differences when different species had to work together on the same ships and on each other's worlds?

[Linda]

Okay, I would like to see some really ugly starship collisions. War scenes would be great, starships beating the crap out of each other. But just not the way the Xindi thing dragged on. Make the command decisions more realistic. Use more enlisted people in recuring roles, not just the officers. Something about the Xindi thing was so darn depressing. Lets have a struggle, yes, but make it better. Am I making sense here? I am not sure I am expressing what I really would like to see.

And of course have Trip and T'Pol be a REAL couple during these last three seasons.

And...I can hear the groans...Trip's sister did survive the Xindi attack. She left on the Vahklas with Tavin and Kov for a short adventure...leaving a message on her computer to be sent to her family. The computer was distroyed in the attack, the message never sent, the Vahklas is trashed by some sort of anomely, 'blown' off course, crash lands on an M class world. So at some point Trip is reunited with his sister.

[Linda]

Well, KTR, you DID want someone to chime in...

Better be careful of what you ask for!

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I think the last three three seasons would have shown us the formation of the federation. Was it only four planetary civilizations (Vulcan, Earth, Andoria, Telar)? I get the impression that these were the major founding worlds. I would like to have seen more on the cultures of these four worlds interacting and overcoming their differences to come to the point were a federation would work.

Those four worlds are canon (mentioned by Daniels) as founding worlds of the Federation. Most have the founding powers as five, so there are different views on which is the fifth world. Some fans say it's Alpha Centauri, based on Franz Joseph's old TOS Technical Manual. Some ENT fans think it could be Denobula.

I would like a little less on the Romulan war than what others here seem to want. Yes, it should be a factor, but I had a little too much with a whole season arc on the Xindi conflict. It would be interesting to see how the other three founding federation worlds were reacting to what canon has suggested was an Earth/Romulan war. Or is that canon that it was mainly Earth against the Romulans?

Well, in Balance of Terror they state Earth so most fans have taken it to mean Earth against the Romulans. That doesn't mean that at a later point in the war Earth will get allies to help defeat the Romulans. But mainly it's an Earth/Romulan war.

Anyway, a focus on the forming of the federation would give us all kinds of ideas for episodes. For one thing, how to remake Starfleet which was basically Earth's 'space navy' into an interplanetary force. That would lead into expanding Starfleet Academy also into an interplanetary military college. Then there are the issues of trade within the federation vs outside of it. And cooperation on technological development - how to get over the secrets each world was keeping and coming to an agreement to share technology. How about accomodations for biological differences when different species had to work together on the same ships and on each other's worlds?

I think most of those types of stories would belong in a post-founding of the Federation time frame (2161 and beyond) and not before.

My take is that they found the UFP in the wake of the Earth/Romulan war, but that they don't work out all the details at once. The UFP of 2161 is a different animal than the UFP in Kirk's time. I see it more as how the European Communities (today's European Union) evolved after WW2.

I also don't think they would integrate their militaries/fleet just yet. In the beginning I see the UFP Starfleet as a kind of NATO where they co-operate and have a gradual (probably over decades) integration until you get the Starfleet we know from Kirk's time. Like the USA, I see Earth dominating this NATO-type early UFP Starfleet, and with Starfleet Academy as something like West Point.

This is why I like Elessar's idea about a mini-series about the founding of the Federation set immediately after ENT. That one could presumably launch another Star Trek dealing with the newly formed Federation.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Okay, I would like to see some really ugly starship collisions. War scenes would be great, starships beating the crap out of each other. But just not the way the Xindi thing dragged on. Make the command decisions more realistic. Use more enlisted people in recuring roles, not just the officers. Something about the Xindi thing was so darn depressing. Lets have a struggle, yes, but make it better. Am I making sense here? I am not sure I am expressing what I really would like to see.

I dunno, war isn't supposed to be funny and I would like a realistic type of war, with courage, loss and hard decisions. It's not supposed to be "upbeat" so i certainly don't mind the depressing factor. It should be like in Rigil's Endeavour stories.

And of course have Trip and T'Pol be a REAL couple during these last three seasons.

Oh yes, definitely.

And...I can hear the groans...Trip's sister did survive the Xindi attack. She left on the Vahklas with Tavin and Kov for a short adventure...leaving a message on her computer to be sent to her family. The computer was distroyed in the attack, the message never sent, the Vahklas is trashed by some sort of anomely, 'blown' off course, crash lands on an M class world. So at some point Trip is reunited with his sister.

*Groans!*

Seriously, having her alive would take away Trip's struggles and everything from season 3. So a definite no.

[CX]

I don't really participate in these types of discussions because I usually find them pretty depressing.

While Manny would've tried to make some mroe TOS tie-ins, I doubt he'd have been able to show the war or the formation of the Federation because that seemed to be B&B's intention from the start. I can only guess as to why. It could be just that they were stupid and thought that would be a great idea - I mean, they thought *the_abomination* was a "valentine", right? It was probably because they wanted to do all that in the movies though, to take over from the TNG movies, at least if the initial plans for ST:11 are an indication (not to mention an indication of just how little they respected established continuity).

[Elessar]

Well Rick and Brannon were dumped on the endnote of Enterprise, so it's concievable that IF the studio had decided to continue the series but had some kind of hopes for resurrection in 3 more seasons, that perhaps they would have continued to go forward with removing B&B from the helm. Whether the new head would have been Manny Coto, who knows, but he would nonetheless have been an influential creative force for the whole thing. The fact that they dumped Brannon and Rick but still went ahead with "more Trek" in the form of Star Trek 11 says to me that Paramount just wanted to cut its losses of Enterprise (what it percieved to be losses), bringing on a whole new creative staff and a new concept. As some have been willing to speculate, perhaps even a reboot.

They talked about all this franchise fatigue, but I would not be surprised if even those at Paramount and UPN and Viacom actually place the blame with the producers, because after all, here we are only a couple years later and they're making another film. That's not much downtime to claim a resurgence following "franchise fatigue". I think what everyone at the studio and Paramount REALLY meant but could not say, was "producer fatigue". It was just unfortunate that Enterprise came to be during this crisis of leadership and also unfortunate that not enough people outside of Rick and Brannon were interested in it, in order to keep it going yet simultaneously dump Rick and Brannon. I think that was a real possibility and I think the cancellation of Enterprise was largely an unfortunate byproduct of their severence from Star Trek. I think Enterprise's "less-than-up-to-par-with-TNG" performance (as we know, it wasn't all that less than DS9 or VOY at the S4 mark) was just the ammunition used to can Rick and Brannon, and nobody at the network cared enough about the show to try and salvage it and bring in new producers. It's a little too convenient that what was percieved as a failing show was cancelled, first of all 3 years early, and then secondly just a few months before Rick and Brannon were removed from association to the studio.

I think the "franchise fatigue" talk was just to distance Rick and Brannon's departure from the cancellation and percieved failure of the show. I think the studio percieved the "failure of the show" as the failure of Rick and Brannon -- which it was. A great show that could have been greater if people who knew what they were doing were running it. It's just too bad that not one or two important enough people up at Paramount cared enough to try and keep the show going with a new leadership -- like Manny Coto, or Ira Behr (who kicked ass on DS9) or any number of other people. Hell, Judith and Gar Stevens! There would have been 5 or 6 great choices to replace them and get the show back on its feet and in a direction to improve ratings.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

^ That sounds plausible to me.

On a related note, I think another thing that hurt ENT and Star Trek was its episodic nature. Most serious TV dramas nowadays feature different story and character arcs. This has not been the case for most of Star Trek. DS9 started to have it, but the producers had to fight the studio every time they wanted more arc stories. It wasn't until ENT season three that they began with a long arc. And in season four we had the mini-arcs that nevertheless tied into each other.

So I think as part of the general shakedown, had there been more ENT seasons, they would've kept making more arc-based stories. Even more episodic sci-fi shows such as Stargate: Atlantis have some arcs nowadays.

[Elessar]

I agree... I love the arcs. An episode has to be really fantastic to win me over if it's episodic -- like Inner Light, a few in DS9 I can't remember, Home, First Flight, not many more. Maybe one or two more in TNG. But I don't get into those as much either, and I think that's a holdover from TOS days when the whole "what will we see THIS WEEK!" was exciting enough for people because it was such a completely new concept. Nowadays that'd been done to death and people want more involving character and story arcs, like DS9 did. I just don't get why they didn't do that more with Enterprise early on -- then again, maybe they thought they were with the TCW story. I don't know... but they should have picked something a little closer to our hearts as Trekkies, like the Earth-Romulan war. That could have been an arc started from the very beginning, in season 1. There's nothing that says that the conflict, the hostilities, or at least some basic contact, could not have started as early as season 1. In fact it did in episodes like Minefield, but it could have been the TCW instead of the TCW.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I think Babylon 5 really spoiled me regarding story arcs. I know that you cannot expect every show to have a JMS who thought everything through long before they actually started shooting, but still. I know that they made up the Xindi arc as they went, and the same goes for DS9's arcs, but I wish they'd have some sort of pre-planning. A minor thing in an early episode can turn out to be a huge thing a couple of seasons down the line...

[Mitchell]

I also don't think they would integrate their militaries/fleet just yet. In the beginning I see the UFP Starfleet as a kind of NATO where they co-operate and have a gradual (probably over decades) integration until you get the Starfleet we know from Kirk's time. Like the USA, I see Earth dominating this NATO-type early UFP Starfleet, and with Starfleet Academy as something like West Point.

West Point?!? Compares to Starfleet Academy? Last I checked Ground pounder U is not to interested in ship life, or Navel operations of any kind. Dont you mean Annapolis instead. Course Comparing The US Navel Academy, to Starfleet is Just as big a insult as comparing West Point to Starfleet.

Actualy I think this is how Earth should be yet in the 22nd century. Atleast Military wise.
Starfleet IMO should be the Exploration division of the World Sorta a Workin International NASA/UESA. Then Earth Defence would actualy be taken care of by an Actual Military, or multiple National Military Force.
Sorry Just never bought into the Fully United Earth, Less then a 100 Years after a WW.
Were all to damn good at holdin Grudges for to damn long to start workin together peacefully with each other in less then a 100 years.

But then ofcourse, TPTB of H-wood rarely ever did anything I wanted them to.


Ok As much as Id want to jump right into the thick of the Earth Rommie War.
Realisticlly, I think Tera Prime needs to be covered more. Since Terrorest groups never dissapear over night. I think its kinda stupid to say that the "Terra Prime" arc was the end of it, an then move on. Even with the possiblity of seeing the Rommie war on the Show, I think Earth should of still been dealing with th Terra Prime threat, an the likes of them for perhaps even a couple decades after the arc ended.