Status and Support

[Asso]

Leave her alone. Let her and Trip carry the stories without the needless brutalizing of T'Pol

I agree with yo. Much of ENT seemed to be "torture the Vulcan"

Yeah, I also agree.
What do you think? Will there be a reason?
And will there be a reason why I've never been able to read the whole "Charlie"? (excuse me, Distracted, you know I am sincere, maybe a little too much sometimes).
The fact is, sorry, that there are things which truly boys are not able to appreciate.
At least the boys like me.
But this is an old debate. I have felt an irresistible urge to intervene, but maybe I did a wrong thing.
I apologize.
I am a boy a little too impulsive and unreasonable. Maybe there's a little too of Trip in me.
I need a reasonable T'Pol.
I withdraw in search for my wife.

[Alelou]

It's a hell of a lot easier being a prof than a parent. I knew I'd hit some kind of milestone yesterday when I for the first time got, "Can you just get off my back for a few minutes?"

Judging from his grades, unfortunately, I should have spent a whole lot more time on his back this quarter.

And Asso, from what I'm told, you have yourself written some pretty extreme "Torture the Vulcan" stuff.

[WarpGirl]

I don't buy the theory that women like "Charlie" and men don't. Cogito is a kind intelligent gentlman and he gave it an honest and glowing praise. Is it a difficult and risky story, yes. But so are many other feats of litature. And when it comes to fanfic, there isn't much of it that touches that level of quality.

[Asso]

And Asso, from what I'm told, you have yourself written some pretty extreme "Torture the Vulcan" stuff.

It's possible, indeed it's true, but it comes to a peculiar kind of "Torture the Vulcan" stuff.
And then, I think now you know. I am a liar.
Honest, but still a liar.
Or... a liar, but still honest?

[Cogito]

Honest, but still a liar.

A liar, or so you say, but should I believe you?

[Asso]

Honest, but still a liar.

A liar, or so you say, but should I believe you?

Arduous question.

Maybe this may help.

P. E. B. Jourdain: the card paradox.

There is a card, on one side of which is printed:
“The sentence on the other side of this card is TRUE.”
On the other side of the card is printed:
“The sentence on the other side of this card is FALSE.”

[Silverbullet]

Distracted, I must admit that I have never read "Charlie" Never even looked at it. MY loss. I may read it soon, depending.

I don't like Rape, I hate it with a passion.

Not all stories come with a warning. I read one where all of the women on board Enterprise were raped and T'Pol was brutaly raped several times. the ones who did it were universal impregnaters.they could impregnate their own females, human women and Vulcans. according to the story. The scene did not further the story or the story line and could have easily been left out. IN fact the rapists were never in the story after that scene so it was just jammed in for shock.

I cannot understand women who will write about it. I thought, and still do, that females hate the thought of Rape and find Rape in stories regpnant. Am I wrong? I know the thought of Rape haunts some women


I have never wrote any scene where T'Pol is Raped or Brutalized, yet. I can. it inot that hard.

The subject as usaual gets me up off my launching pad, sorry

SB

[Distracted]

Yep. I think you've made that pretty clear, SB.

"Charlie" isn't in our archive. It's posted at HoT and in a slightly edited (I think improved) version on ff.net. From what I know of your preferences you may find it a gut wrenching read, but you're welcome to go for it and then ream me out afterwards. I'm a big girl. I can take it.

There's no rape in it, I promise.

[WarpGirl]

I keep waiting for you to add it here!

[Distracted]

Dunno if I'm that brave.

[WarpGirl]

You really should be!

[Transwarp]

I agree with you. Much of ENT seemed to be "torture the Vulcan"

Oops. I'm guilty of that (in my story 'Liaison'). At least I didn't have her raped!

Although... which is worse, really? Being raped, or tied to a chair and burned with a soldering iron for six hours?

It's a hell of a choice, but I'm pretty sure I *wouldn't* pick the soldering iron if I had to choose.

The interesting thing is, I think there would have been a much greater uproar from the readers if T'Pol had been raped in that story, rather than just tortured. And I would have to agree with them, although I'm not sure I can articulate exactly why. Probably because as ugly as the torture was, it had a purpose (gain information), and T'Pol could stop it any time (by providing that information). By enduring the torture, she demonstrates a steadfastness, strength, and loyalty to her cause that is inherently noble. How she responds to her pain and suffering reveals her (and Trip's) character.

Rape, on the other hand, has no purpose other than to degrade its victim and empower its perpetrator. If T'Pol endured her rape with the same steadfastness and strength as she endured her torture, would you (the reader) see the same noble character in her? I suspect not. Which is (if you think about it) not entirely fair.

[WarpGirl]

Okay I keep hoping this will just go away but obviously it won't so here's my two-cents. I have written several characters in my life who were raped. Why? Because it's like Transwarp said...

Rape, on the other hand, has no purpose other than to degrade its victim and empower its perpetrator.

The women were held captive by bad guys who had that objective. There are evil people in this world who use every means within their power to "break" their victims. I have never described the actual events and I never will, because it isn't neccessary! But in TnT the fact is she *was* already raped twice, perhaps not in body but she was just as brutally violated. So the people who scream about it, forget there are worse things to endure, and she already has!

Rant over.

[Asso]

In the second chapter of my MU story (The Empire's Destiny) my MU T'Pol is subject to the possibility (I stress the word "possibility") to be violated and brutalized in the worst ways (Mh... is it possible that Alelou is right?), showing, however, to be able to fight with the proudest spirit and the greatest pride.
There is a small detail, though. Ultimately, she is neither violated nor brutalized.
Yeah. Somebody (Who knows who?) comes to her rescue.

....Rape, on the other hand, has no purpose other than to degrade its victim and empower its perpetrator. If T'Pol endured her rape with the same steadfastness and strength as she endured her torture, would you (the reader) see the same noble character in her? I suspect not. Which is (if you think about it) not entirely fair.

I would see the same noble character in her, but I would feel disgusted and I would think it would be not only a horrible torture for T'Pol, but especially a horrendous and plot-useless torture for the reader.

[Silverbullet]

WG, you are taling about T'Pol being mentally Raped twice. Once by tolaris and the other time by Rajiin. for some reason Mental Rape is not so horrid as Physical Rape. For me, there is not the sense of the type of violation in Mental as there is in Physical.

Physical Rape is meant to Harm, humiliate, to show the Victem how powerless she is. To degrade the woman. Generaly there is little Sex attached to it.

In Mental Rape there is no Sex at all and is not meant to humiliate or even harm. It violates though. T'Pol survived intact from both attacks.

My Brother was a Cop. He had seen Rape victems. Most he would say was that it wasn't pretty.

It is not.

I have seen Truckloads, I repeat, Truckloads of females from the very young to the very old who had been repeatedly Raped, some to death. I saw what was done to them before, during and after the rapes. The hate behind those Rapes was awful.

In Rwanda, Dafur that kind of Rape was and is a daily occurance.

Picture yourself, held down beaten and savaged while being Raped. It probably is hard to imagine because the mind recoils from it.

SB