Does Trip ever call Archer "Jon"?

[Jamieson]

Hi folks, I've been rather scarce lately (work has me on overdrive) but I'm starting to ease back into writing/vidding, which is where this question comes in:

In the series, does Trip actually call Archer "Jon", particularly when addressing him directly? My memory just is not what it used to be these days, especially for the early seasons - I'm planning to rewatch the series in the near future, but haven't had the opportunity yet. While he calls him in Jon often in fanfic, an affectionate "Cap'n" is the only off-duty/friendly form of address I can recall in the canon eps. Am I wrong?

[Alelou]

I can't remember a single occasion when he called him Jon. I often have him thinking it in his head, but never saying it to his face while they're serving together (unless something has happened to really change their usual interactions, i.e. in North Star he starts to do it, but it's not a good sign).

[Cogito]

According to the transcripts at http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/episodes.htm, Forrest and Silik often call him Jon, Daniels, Erika and Danica called him Jon occasionally, even T'Pol called him Jon once, but Trip never did.

[Jamieson]

That was what I had assumed. I've always found it a little odd, especially in the beginning when they tended to showcase a little more often the close, long-standing friendship these two characters had, particularly while hanging out off-duty. Although I suppose it could be argued that the more jovial, affectionate tone Trip uses when addressing Archer in off-duty or just generally lighter circumstances can be interpreted as his own version of a friendly nickname.

Thanks for clarifying that for me

[Alelou]

Yeah, "cap'n" is fairly affectionate. If he ever pronounced it "captain" when they were alone, it would probably mean he was really pissed off.

[Cogito]

When did Archer become a captain? I have always imagined it happening shortly before he took command of Enterprise, but it's something I find very hard to rationalise because he's so obviously unsuited for command that I can't imagine Starfleet giving him command if they knew what sort of commander he was, but I also can't imagine them giving command to a test pilot with no prior command experience. The whole scenario is very perplexing.

[panyasan]

I always have to sigh when I read parts in fanfic about "the long and deep friendship between Jon and Trip". The problem is: I don't see much of that friendship, apart from some scenes in the beginning of Enterprise. The fact that Trip calls Jon "captain" all the time - for me it's a sign Jon and Trip aren't buddy-friends (like Malcolm and Trip, I bet Trip calls Malcolm "Mal" most of the time), but more senior colleague/older brother - younger co-worker/younger brother relationship. So friendship yes, but close friends? No. Otherwise Trip would call Archer off work Jon more often.

[Jamieson]

I tend to see it more like they had a fairly good friendship before Trip was under Archer's command on Enterprise - there are small moments throughout the series where comments/actions suggest (to me, at least) they were closer than just friendly colleagues at some point. However when they got on the ship I think the nature of the relationship changed, partly out of necessity (juggling the friend vs. CO dynamic) and partly out of the burden of time, etc. They're fairly different people and the various circumstances that previously allowed them to build/maintain a friendship just weren't in play anymore, so they drifted apart. I imagine the hero-worship and idolizing that Trip displayed in the beginning started to wear off as he matured/came into his own (and yeah, probably after witnessing some of Archer's more questionable actions =p), which only would have contributed to the rift. Watching your idol become a real, flawed human being places strain on any relationship. Then the Expanse happened and...well...that was that.

[Alelou]

Yep, that fits my view of things between them.

[panyasan]

I tend to see it more like they had a fairly good friendship before Trip was under Archer's command on Enterprise - there are small moments throughout the series where comments/actions suggest (to me, at least) they were closer than just friendly colleagues at some point. However when they got on the ship I think the nature of the relationship changed, partly out of necessity (juggling the friend vs. CO dynamic) and partly out of the burden of time, etc. They're fairly different people and the various circumstances that previously allowed them to build/maintain a friendship just weren't in play anymore, so they drifted apart. I imagine the hero-worship and idolizing that Trip displayed in the beginning started to wear off as he matured/came into his own (and yeah, probably after witnessing some of Archer's more questionable actions =p), which only would have contributed to the rift. Watching your idol become a real, flawed human being places strain on any relationship. Then the Expanse happened and...well...that was that.

I really like your view, Jamieson. It makes a lot of sense. The whole dynamic of their friendship is great potential for a story, a friendship story we can all relate to (having best friends growing apart).

[CoffeeCat]

again, but I think the events of Similitude caused a rift between them that was never repaired and probably never could be.

[Cogito]

In my imagination, the engineer in Trip was originally in awe of Jon as the celebrity son of the famed Henry Archer. I'm sure Jon milked that for all he was worth - just as I'm sure that nepotism played a big role in Jon's assignment as captain of the NX1.

It's clear they were (or had been) close friends at the start of the series and I imagine that comes from their experience on the Warp Five project. Judging by what we saw on the show, Jon's promotion to Captain brought out the worst in him and I doubt his friendship with Trip was the same after that.

[73Bruin]

I thought that Jon and Trip were still good friends in Season 1. Jon especially realized he screwed up in Season 1's Desert Crossing episode.

I think that the end of the friendship came about as a result of an accumulation of events in Season 2. This is especially true when Jon showed Trip a complete lack of respect in the Seventh when Jon and T'Pol leave Trip in charge of the Enterprise with no explanation of why, where they were going or when to expect their return. Totally screwed. Jon's was a despicable hypocrite in the Cogenitor and I don't see how they could remain friends after that.

I don't think Jon had any friends in season 3 as he became fixated on the mission. I don't recall him ever reestablishing a friendly relationship in Season 4 even if he claimed to be a friend when Trip asked for a transfer.

[CoffeeCat]

I thought that Jon and Trip were still good friends in Season 1. Jon especially realized he screwed up in Season 1's Desert Crossing episode.

I think that the end of the friendship came about as a result of an accumulation of events in Season 2. This is especially true when Jon showed Trip a complete lack of respect in the Seventh when Jon and T'Pol leave Trip in charge of the Enterprise with no explanation of why, where they were going or when to expect their return. Totally screwed. Jon's was a despicable hypocrite in the Cogenitor and I don't see how they could remain friends after that.

I don't think Jon had any friends in season 3 as he became fixated on the mission. I don't recall him ever reestablishing a friendly relationship in Season 4 even if he claimed to be a friend when Trip asked for a transfer.

When I said I rewatched the series, I confess I skipped right over season 2 because I think it was just *that* horrible. Its been years so I can't remember how "Cogenitor" ended, all I remember is the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach after watching it.

This is good info. Thank you for posting it.

[panyasan]

The Trip - Jon development in the show is very interesting. I think Archer may realize Trip and he have been grown apart in season 4, but he really doesn't like to admit this to himself. I always hope both men will come together again, both older and wiser.